I won't attack anyone because of anonymity in the futeure, thank you all for your support<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 4/25/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jacob Maynard</b> <<a href="mailto:indymaynard@maynard.homelinux.com">
indymaynard@maynard.homelinux.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This was a lot to think about and respond to, but we have several things
<br>that we could bring to the benefit of the open source community. Already,<br>Dell is working to decide which distribution to install for users. It<br>needs to be something simple with KDE or GNOME already set as default so
<br>as not to confuse the "I've only used Windows so I don't know anything<br>else and don't want to take the time to learn something else" users. It<br>needs to have all of your basics for productivity and entertainment. Then,
<br>we also have to cater to the gamers, who are in a very large number.<br><br>One thing I'm sad to say is that Linux does not have the same multimedia<br>support that Windows has, and I say this in the sense of codecs. It is too
<br>complicated to set it up for a normal Windows user. This is why the<br>choosing of the distribution is of the utmost importance for the "word of<br>mouth" type of publicity. Linux doesn't have the income to support
<br>television or radio or newspaper advertisements to get the word out there<br>that there is an alternative.<br><br>I am only 24 years old and I own 5 computers. I do this as a hobby, not a<br>job. I have one computer set up as a server (overloaded, I might add, but
<br>still operating fantastically!) with Fedora Core 5, one as a backup<br>server/mess around with computer running SuSE 10. One computer is a 1996<br>Toshiba Satellite which runs Slackware for my "have to have only command
<br>prompt days." The last one is my Windows XP Alienware that was purchased<br>for gaming. This is another things about Linux that upsets me; the gaming<br>situation.<br><br>My point with that last paragraph was actually to say that we have
<br>different viewpoints because of generational opinions on the "troll"<br>situatiton. It needs to be handled delicately. You may stop reading when<br>debate becomes heated, but for the new generation of "I love soap opera
<br>drama" information seekers, they thrive on it. The trick is to make it<br>seem like an argument that is not an argument. That way, yes, the<br>sidelined, knowledge thirsty individuals reaching for answers or<br>alternatives can see. If we lose the battle to the "troll", our cause is
<br>viewed as weak. If we win because we said, "I'm right and you're wrong"<br>more times, our cause is not taken seriously and people go back to surfing<br>the rest of the internet.<br><br>Our goal should be to win with facts that other people, not necessarily
<br>the "troll", can ponder and mull over. If we lose the "troll", we've only<br>lost one. If our facts persuade anybody who stumbles on or watches this<br>site, then we've gained that many. Our chances are greater to sway people
<br>when we keep our cool.<br><br>That's what I had to say in a nutshell. And my wife is beating me to come<br>to dinner, but I will write more on this topic as the situations come up,<br>or if I can think of anything else.
<br><br>Thanks for your time and well thought-out responses.<br><br>Jacob<br><br>><br>> An interesting take on things. A view I had not considered - at least not<br>> for<br>> a very long time.<br>><br>> Lets see if I have this right, or at least passably close.
<br>><br>> I suspect you view it as being a sort of competition - almost a sporting<br>> event, for the spectators on the sidelines, as it were.<br>><br>> It's not about the troll (if such he be), but rather to show other readers
<br>> that he is wrong, so they will not go away feeling that the trolls<br>> questions<br>> were not answered, and by association feeling that all us "geeky, nerd,<br>> coder<br>> types" are not very helpful, and GNU/Linux is not for them.
<br>><br>> Mostly because the spectator may not know about trolls and such, and<br>> therefore<br>> needs to be clear about the points you are making about Free Software.<br>><br>> Did I get that about right?
<br>><br>> Now please believe me, I am not trolling here. The thing is that I'm<br>> almost 70<br>> years old, and while I grew up with this industry, or more accurately this<br>> industry grew up with me --in truth I helped build some of it. I also am
<br>> well<br>> aware that the future does not belong to me.<br>><br>> This just means that I also may have a considerable different take on some<br>> things - not necessarily the 'right' or 'only' take, just one that goes
<br>> with<br>> my personal experiences.<br>><br>> So this is a very serious question --I'm just trying to see if I<br>> understand<br>> your point.<br>><br>> If I have got it right, then it is an interesting way to look at it, and I
<br>> will want to think about that method.<br>><br>> Off the top I think it is probably very accurate and applicable to today's<br>> users. But it would be unlikely to sway me much (as one of the<br>> 'spectators').
<br>><br>> That's what I meant about patience. For me, after the third or fourth<br>> "Asked<br>> and Answered", with each side becoming more heated, I lose all interest in<br>> what ever the subject was. And just read no further.
<br>><br>> Which means that from that point on, anything anyone posts is lost to me<br>> anyway, because I'm long gone (me, or any 'spectator' that feels the way I<br>> do).<br>><br>> But I think that I can (dimly) remember a time that I might not have felt
<br>> that<br>> way --I would probably have been in there trying to make my point that way<br>> also.<br>><br>> Now I just do it differently, and it works quite well for me. But I<br>> suspect...<br>> well I know, that I deal with a considerably different set of prospective
<br>> new<br>> to GNU/Linux converts, or potential converts, then most of you do.<br>><br>> I know this because while I still build and install computer systems,<br>> retirement has the advantage of allowing me to only do 100% GNU/Linux
<br>> systems. I just refuse to work on, install, or fix, anything else.<br>><br>> So far --this year-- I've installed 14 GNU/Linux systems for people, the<br>> youngest of which was 59 years old, the oldest is 83 (the person, not the
<br>> system ;).<br>><br>> These are all GNU/Linux only users, no dual boot, or second computers<br>> running<br>> Windows. Some had an old Windows box first, and some are brand new to all<br>> this computer/Internet stuff.
<br>><br>> I'm positive not one of them even knows what a blog is (they may learn -<br>> or<br>> not, hard to say). But they would all recognize and ignore a troll, even<br>> if<br>> they would not use the term 'troll' to describe such a person. So my
<br>> approach<br>> is different.<br>><br>> Not better, just different.<br>><br>> And there is one other little thing my 'old' users do, that I think has<br>> value.<br>> They tend to be the people that buy the computers for grand-kids, etc. and
<br>> you know what system they will expect to be on the grand-kids box.<br>><br>> Yep, the system they understand --which won't be Windows.<br>><br>> I've been doing this for enough years now to have some of my 'people' from
<br>> years past starting to taste the anger, when they find out they can't<br>> simply<br>> buy a box with GNU/Linux pre-installed for a son, or daughter, or one of<br>> the<br>> grand-kids.<br>><br>
> For them the taste is bitter, for me their anger has the sweet taste of<br>> success at achieving my underlying goal.<br>><br>> And twice as sweet because this is beginning to change, soon finding a<br>> GNU/Linux pre-installed system may be as easy as phoning Dell (or whatever
<br>> major player that is smart enough to get on the GNU/Linux bandwagon).<br>><br>> While it may not (yet) be pure GNU/Linux, it will be a big step towards<br>> that<br>> goal.<br>><br>> We will 'win' this war, as long as we all work at it as best we can.
<br>><br>> So keep workin' at it, any way you can. That's what I plan to do for as<br>> long<br>> as I can.<br>><br>> D. Hensley<br>> --<br>> GNU/Linux is the future.<br>> Join the FSF:
<a href="http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458">http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458</a><br>> Get the Real Facts: <a href="http://BadVista.org">http://BadVista.org</a><br>> *******************************************
<br>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 01:26 pm, Jacob Maynard wrote:<br>> Even though I didn't take the comment that way, it's something we have to<br>> watch for. If we don't we sound like the little kids in the back seat on a
<br>> long road trip. I just think that since we are trying to convince the<br>> general public to switch to open source, I think that we need to maintain<br>> our maturity and beware not to let it fall to that level. The trolls will
<br>> say their things, but we can't let questions go unanswered. Does that make<br>> sense? I don't want there to be a question from someone who is obviously<br>> baiting, and have it be the question of someone who is legitimately
<br>> looking for answers, then not have it answered.<br>><br>> So once you beat them with proof, they will resort to the little kid in<br>> the back seat. As long as our answers are legitimate, people will know
<br>> that the "trolls" lost.<br>><br>> If we get two or three trolls actively throwing stuff out like that, and<br>> we have even 8 of us actively countering with proof, we still will have<br>> enough people and brainpower to thwart them. This is what the general
<br>> public will see. Publicity is just politics. If you play it right, people<br>> will go with you. Then they will learn that it is better for them in the<br>> long run.<br>><br>> Jacob<br>><br>><br>
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