[BadVista Advocate] Rek2's Post on LUGs and GNULUGs

[Sunnz]

Why don't we just tell the user that there are completely free OS like
gNewsense that may not work with everything and there are free OS with
non-free drivers like Ubuntu that is more likely to work with
everything and let the user make the choice?

My thought is that we should not mislead people that gNewsense is the
only distro and show them all the choices.

2007/5/2, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com>:
>
> > Ubuntu is owned by Canonical which is a for-profit corporation. While
> > this is probably only established to shield them from legal liability,
> > the fact that it is a corporation will inevitably cause it to go the
> > wrong direction if it gets too much power.
> > http://www.canonical.com/
> > Comrade Ringo Kamens
> > On 5/1/07, Sunnz <sunnzy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> For all I know Ubuntu isn't a corporation of any kind, it is still
> >> personal funded by Mark Shuttleworth and it is an important "stepping
> >> stone" for people to switch.
> >>
> >> What we are facing isn't just a straight free replacement of Windows,
> >> but are promoting a free alternative that's different than what they
> >> had. It is not just the freedom/moral that we are introducing but a
> >> technically different beast that's GNU/Linux - and if people can't use
> >> it, or use it to its fullest, then that's too bad, it is also as
> >> _restriction_, albeit different restriction to DRM.
> >>
> >> And for that reason I would argue Ubuntu is a very important step in
> >> the course, it is very likely to work on a Windows computer so people
> >> can at least get their head around Linux learning its environment,
> >> etc.
> >>
> >> 2007/5/2, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com>:
> >> >
> >> > > I wanted to state my opinion on this issue. I recognize rek2's
> >> > > authority to make this decision and will therefore not oppose it but
> >> > > if the Binary Freedom community opposes it then a consensus vote
> >> will
> >> > > be made and the order overturned. My personal opinion, not the one
> >> of
> >> > > BinaryFreedom, is that any change that puts us in a freer position
> >> is
> >> > > good. I think that it's better for people to switch to non-free
> >> > > systems like Ubuntu and install proprietary drivers (like I am
> >> forced
> >> > > to do) than continue to use Vista because gnewsense doesn't work.
> >> > > While they are still sacrificing freedoms, they are regaining their
> >> > > self-determination which they did not have with Microsoft. We, as
> >> free
> >> > > software activists, regardless of our personal beliefs on whether
> >> > > systems like Ubuntu are truly free, should fearless promote such
> >> > > systems. I even would rather see somebody switch to Mac instead of
> >> > > stay with Windows because even then they are regaining
> >> > > self-determination. The danger with this is that as we switch people
> >> > > to not truly free operating systems like Ubuntu, they will gain
> >> power.
> >> > > Power corrupts. They are a corporation, and as a corporation have
> >> one
> >> > > responsibility: to demonstrate growth to their stockholders. They
> >> will
> >> > > no longer care about ethics or freedom and this isn't an attack on
> >> > > Ubuntu, it's developers, or the community but on the corporation.
> >> RMS
> >> > > didn't get where he is by compromising, but I believe that in some
> >> > > cases we must slowly gain our ground. One such organization that
> >> comes
> >> > > to mind is the IWW who in their constitution say they can't
> >> sacrifice
> >> > > their rights at all however there is an important distinction to
> >> make.
> >> > > We are not giving up our rights, but we are slowly retaking them. By
> >> > > switching somebody to Ubuntu we are regaining _some_ of our rights
> >> and
> >> > > as a result, I consider it not only better but to not be in
> >> > > contradictions with the aim of the FSF, Binary Freedom, and Rek2. I
> >> > > believe that all of these organizations are truly working towards
> >> the
> >> > > common good however sometimes we get sidetracked and I wanted to
> >> > > present this alternative way of viewing things if they had not been
> >> > > heard before. As of such, I will continue to present things like
> >> > > Ubuntu to people as options on this mailing list however I will not
> >> do
> >> > > so under the flag of Binary Freedom as long as Rek2's ruling stands.
> >> > > Respectfully Submitted,
> >> > > Comrade Ringo Kamens
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Advocate mailing list
> >> > > Advocate at badvista.org
> >> > > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > AN ANALOGY:
> >> > We just have to make sure people dun enter ubuntu and think that it is
> >> > already heaven, but later found that they are just 1 level above hell.
> >> > Make sure that they remember to continue climbing up, instead of
> >> staying
> >> > satisfied at the level-above-hell like what they used to in hell. That
> >> is
> >> > what happened some of to those at OSI.
> >> >
> >> > Some of us come from there, but we are definately not going stay there
> >> > forever. But it is somewhere we have to go through to reach here =)
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Lam YongXian
> >> > Adolflam.com
> >> >
> >> > FSF member #5279
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Advocate mailing list
> >> > Advocate at badvista.org
> >> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
> Sounds more like a generalisation. It doesn't mean that a corporation will
> eat freedom, nor that a non-profit organisation will always guarantee
> freedom. Whatever it is, that is not the issue. It is just not free, and
> for now, we should not promote it in the name of free software.
>
> Take it this way, if someone ask the badvista,
> 1. what OS to switch to: we should recommend a free OS
> 3. what OS to switch to for complete freedom: definately recommend free OS
> 2. what OS that is more free, but will work easily: we can recommend
> ubuntu and stuff
>
> Hope you understand =)
>
> ---
> Lam YongXian
> Adolflam.com
>
> FSF member #5279
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
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