From Don at donhensley.com  Tue May  1 00:10:44 2007
From: Don at donhensley.com (Don Hensley)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:10:44 -0700
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] projectors for an ad campaign
In-Reply-To: <3922422b0704301947v70ba40dcpef0309e7d51a22bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704301943.07322.Don@donhensley.com>
	<3922422b0704301947v70ba40dcpef0309e7d51a22bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200704302110.44408.Don@donhensley.com>


The only thing about that is I don't know just how much light a digital 
projector can pump out.

Think about it, the equation here is like illuminating a building wall with a 
flash light, or a flood light. They will both do it but the effective light 
from the flash light will most likely not be observable to the human eye, if 
spread over much area and distance.

I'm not familiar enough with the digital projectors to be able to say much, 
except that I know the ones I have seen (like at presentations, etc.) would 
never work... more like the flashlight, if you see what I mean. But as I said 
for all I know they make the digital versions in major big high lumen output 
versions.

I know I would be skeptical of a old style movie projector making a very 
brilliant display if used on a really large building... it too would be more 
on the flashlight end (just a lot brighter then any digital unit I know 
about) But as I said, my knowledge of digital units is very small.

And do they make digital projectors for movies? I thought that was mostly, if 
not all, more like a slide projector, or over head projector.

Don.
***************************** 
 On Monday 30 April 2007 07:47 pm, Ringo Kamens wrote:
We don't need a dedicated one for this. How about we borrow one from a
university, camera club, store, friend, etc? We could probably even
rent one. I'm not talking about a old school film one, I'm talking
about a nice digital projector that they use for like powerpoints or
cheap movies.
Comrade Ringo Kamens

On 4/30/07, Don Hensley <Don at donhensley.com> wrote:
> If you can find one anymore, I suspect a thrift store would almost give you
> the thing - 5 - 10 bucks, but at 10 bucks it better be in real good shape.
> Anyway that would be my opine.
>
> Of course it is also barely possible that at least some of them have become
> 'collectibles'...
>
> As to the lens to cover what you want, and if the projector would be bright
> enough, you would just have to experiment. But any one in a camera club or
> class, (even digital uses a lens) should be able to help you right out on
> these issues.
>
> Or just try one out, if you can find one. Some one you know, probably has
> parents or grand parents that no doubt have one in storage some place. They
> were the tech of the day, back when. I'd think they'd just give it to you.
>
> Don.
>  ***********************
>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:30 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
> I am very near Fenway Stadium in Boston, and right in front of my
> building there is a nice building.. how much could it cost one of this
> projectors with enough lens?
> BinaryFreedom is going to start selling t-shirts soon with those funs
> we plan in buying things like this to me our activism more visible.
>
> Chris F.
>
> Don Hensley wrote:
> > If it was me, I'd just dump my video to film, like super 8, or 16 mm (70
> > mm would be perfect, but way to expensive both for film and the
> > projector).
> >
> > Then any old home movie projector  --the thrift stores no doubt still
> > have some around, I have a few some place myself --like me relics of
> > another time...
> >
> > Anyway you could really cover a large building that way, so long as the
> > lens would focus it (you could change the lens if you needed to).  The
> > darker the night the better, and that's the rub, until you are into
> > something like a 'drive in movie' projector you are limited by the bulb
> > in the projector. Still it could be done to good effect with some
> > patience for a moonless night and not too bright a set of street lamps.
> >
> > We have done large drawings this way. Project the drawing on a building
> > and then trace it for later painting.
> >
> > Don.
> >  *********************************************
> >  On Monday 30 April 2007 04:21 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
> > I do like the projector idea.. what type of projector is needed for this?
> > hmmm this brings a lot of ideas... */puts evil smile */
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
> --
> GNU/Linux is the future.
> Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
> Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate

_______________________________________________
Advocate mailing list
Advocate at badvista.org
http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate

-- 
GNU/Linux is the future.
Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org


From gregory at civicactions.com  Tue May  1 01:10:13 2007
From: gregory at civicactions.com (Gregory Heller)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 01:10:13 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] projectors for an ad campaign
In-Reply-To: <200704302110.44408.Don@donhensley.com>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>	<200704301943.07322.Don@donhensley.com>	<3922422b0704301947v70ba40dcpef0309e7d51a22bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704302110.44408.Don@donhensley.com>
Message-ID: <4636CBB5.40807@civicactions.com>

see these guys http://graffitiresearchlab.com/?page_id=32#video

there are a bunch of folks in NY who have done some stuff like this with
very powerful projectors.

I did it with a mediocre projector at night on the apple store in soho
on oct 3

Don Hensley wrote:
> The only thing about that is I don't know just how much light a digital 
> projector can pump out.
>
> Think about it, the equation here is like illuminating a building wall with a 
> flash light, or a flood light. They will both do it but the effective light 
> from the flash light will most likely not be observable to the human eye, if 
> spread over much area and distance.
>
> I'm not familiar enough with the digital projectors to be able to say much, 
> except that I know the ones I have seen (like at presentations, etc.) would 
> never work... more like the flashlight, if you see what I mean. But as I said 
> for all I know they make the digital versions in major big high lumen output 
> versions.
>
> I know I would be skeptical of a old style movie projector making a very 
> brilliant display if used on a really large building... it too would be more 
> on the flashlight end (just a lot brighter then any digital unit I know 
> about) But as I said, my knowledge of digital units is very small.
>
> And do they make digital projectors for movies? I thought that was mostly, if 
> not all, more like a slide projector, or over head projector.
>
> Don.
> ***************************** 
>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:47 pm, Ringo Kamens wrote:
> We don't need a dedicated one for this. How about we borrow one from a
> university, camera club, store, friend, etc? We could probably even
> rent one. I'm not talking about a old school film one, I'm talking
> about a nice digital projector that they use for like powerpoints or
> cheap movies.
> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>
> On 4/30/07, Don Hensley <Don at donhensley.com> wrote:
>   
>> If you can find one anymore, I suspect a thrift store would almost give you
>> the thing - 5 - 10 bucks, but at 10 bucks it better be in real good shape.
>> Anyway that would be my opine.
>>
>> Of course it is also barely possible that at least some of them have become
>> 'collectibles'...
>>
>> As to the lens to cover what you want, and if the projector would be bright
>> enough, you would just have to experiment. But any one in a camera club or
>> class, (even digital uses a lens) should be able to help you right out on
>> these issues.
>>
>> Or just try one out, if you can find one. Some one you know, probably has
>> parents or grand parents that no doubt have one in storage some place. They
>> were the tech of the day, back when. I'd think they'd just give it to you.
>>
>> Don.
>>  ***********************
>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:30 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>> I am very near Fenway Stadium in Boston, and right in front of my
>> building there is a nice building.. how much could it cost one of this
>> projectors with enough lens?
>> BinaryFreedom is going to start selling t-shirts soon with those funs
>> we plan in buying things like this to me our activism more visible.
>>
>> Chris F.
>>
>> Don Hensley wrote:
>>     
>>> If it was me, I'd just dump my video to film, like super 8, or 16 mm (70
>>> mm would be perfect, but way to expensive both for film and the
>>> projector).
>>>
>>> Then any old home movie projector  --the thrift stores no doubt still
>>> have some around, I have a few some place myself --like me relics of
>>> another time...
>>>
>>> Anyway you could really cover a large building that way, so long as the
>>> lens would focus it (you could change the lens if you needed to).  The
>>> darker the night the better, and that's the rub, until you are into
>>> something like a 'drive in movie' projector you are limited by the bulb
>>> in the projector. Still it could be done to good effect with some
>>> patience for a moonless night and not too bright a set of street lamps.
>>>
>>> We have done large drawings this way. Project the drawing on a building
>>> and then trace it for later painting.
>>>
>>> Don.
>>>  *********************************************
>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 04:21 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>>> I do like the projector idea.. what type of projector is needed for this?
>>> hmmm this brings a lot of ideas... */puts evil smile */
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>> --
>> GNU/Linux is the future.
>> Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
>> Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
>   

-- 
----
Gregory Heller
AIM/SKYPE: GregoryHeller
http://www.CivicActions.com

Changing the world one node at a time!

The content of this email message is licensed under a  Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License, Some Rights Reserved. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/




From rek2 at binaryfreedom.info  Tue May  1 01:52:41 2007
From: rek2 at binaryfreedom.info (rek2GNU/Linux)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 01:52:41 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] projectors for an ad campaign
In-Reply-To: <4636CBB5.40807@civicactions.com>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>	<200704301943.07322.Don@donhensley.com>	<3922422b0704301947v70ba40dcpef0309e7d51a22bf@mail.gmail.com>	<200704302110.44408.Don@donhensley.com>
	<4636CBB5.40807@civicactions.com>
Message-ID: <4636D5A9.6060906@binaryfreedom.info>

Yes I remember I seen this guys at HOPE last year,
very good point, BTW can you tell me the name and brand of the projector 
you used?
did you rent it? looks like you know about the topic can you tell me a 
cheap place to buy one like it or similar?

Thanks
Chris Fernandez
BinaryFreedom founder


Gregory Heller wrote:
> see these guys http://graffitiresearchlab.com/?page_id=32#video
>
> there are a bunch of folks in NY who have done some stuff like this with
> very powerful projectors.
>
> I did it with a mediocre projector at night on the apple store in soho
> on oct 3
>
> Don Hensley wrote:
>   
>> The only thing about that is I don't know just how much light a digital 
>> projector can pump out.
>>
>> Think about it, the equation here is like illuminating a building wall with a 
>> flash light, or a flood light. They will both do it but the effective light 
>> from the flash light will most likely not be observable to the human eye, if 
>> spread over much area and distance.
>>
>> I'm not familiar enough with the digital projectors to be able to say much, 
>> except that I know the ones I have seen (like at presentations, etc.) would 
>> never work... more like the flashlight, if you see what I mean. But as I said 
>> for all I know they make the digital versions in major big high lumen output 
>> versions.
>>
>> I know I would be skeptical of a old style movie projector making a very 
>> brilliant display if used on a really large building... it too would be more 
>> on the flashlight end (just a lot brighter then any digital unit I know 
>> about) But as I said, my knowledge of digital units is very small.
>>
>> And do they make digital projectors for movies? I thought that was mostly, if 
>> not all, more like a slide projector, or over head projector.
>>
>> Don.
>> ***************************** 
>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:47 pm, Ringo Kamens wrote:
>> We don't need a dedicated one for this. How about we borrow one from a
>> university, camera club, store, friend, etc? We could probably even
>> rent one. I'm not talking about a old school film one, I'm talking
>> about a nice digital projector that they use for like powerpoints or
>> cheap movies.
>> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>>
>> On 4/30/07, Don Hensley <Don at donhensley.com> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> If you can find one anymore, I suspect a thrift store would almost give you
>>> the thing - 5 - 10 bucks, but at 10 bucks it better be in real good shape.
>>> Anyway that would be my opine.
>>>
>>> Of course it is also barely possible that at least some of them have become
>>> 'collectibles'...
>>>
>>> As to the lens to cover what you want, and if the projector would be bright
>>> enough, you would just have to experiment. But any one in a camera club or
>>> class, (even digital uses a lens) should be able to help you right out on
>>> these issues.
>>>
>>> Or just try one out, if you can find one. Some one you know, probably has
>>> parents or grand parents that no doubt have one in storage some place. They
>>> were the tech of the day, back when. I'd think they'd just give it to you.
>>>
>>> Don.
>>>  ***********************
>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:30 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>>> I am very near Fenway Stadium in Boston, and right in front of my
>>> building there is a nice building.. how much could it cost one of this
>>> projectors with enough lens?
>>> BinaryFreedom is going to start selling t-shirts soon with those funs
>>> we plan in buying things like this to me our activism more visible.
>>>
>>> Chris F.
>>>
>>> Don Hensley wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> If it was me, I'd just dump my video to film, like super 8, or 16 mm (70
>>>> mm would be perfect, but way to expensive both for film and the
>>>> projector).
>>>>
>>>> Then any old home movie projector  --the thrift stores no doubt still
>>>> have some around, I have a few some place myself --like me relics of
>>>> another time...
>>>>
>>>> Anyway you could really cover a large building that way, so long as the
>>>> lens would focus it (you could change the lens if you needed to).  The
>>>> darker the night the better, and that's the rub, until you are into
>>>> something like a 'drive in movie' projector you are limited by the bulb
>>>> in the projector. Still it could be done to good effect with some
>>>> patience for a moonless night and not too bright a set of street lamps.
>>>>
>>>> We have done large drawings this way. Project the drawing on a building
>>>> and then trace it for later painting.
>>>>
>>>> Don.
>>>>  *********************************************
>>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 04:21 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>>>> I do like the projector idea.. what type of projector is needed for this?
>>>> hmmm this brings a lot of ideas... */puts evil smile */
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Advocate mailing list
>>> Advocate at badvista.org
>>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>>
>>> --
>>> GNU/Linux is the future.
>>> Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
>>> Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Advocate mailing list
>>> Advocate at badvista.org
>>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>>     
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>   



From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 02:34:31 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:34:31 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] An ad campaign idea
In-Reply-To: <1301.192.168.1.1.1177793906.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1301.192.168.1.1.1177793906.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <34368.203.120.68.72.1178001271.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> I suggest that we keep Mac out of it. Our focus is against Vista. I know
> that the FSF stands behind GNU/Linux, but our aim is against Vista,
> specifically. Even Mac would be better than Vista. Is that agreeable?
>
> Jacob


You mean this campaign is created just to attack Windows Vista thats all?

Lam YongXian
Adolf AT www.adolflam.com



From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 03:58:41 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:58:41 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Vista owners
In-Reply-To: <200704292037.06021.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
References: <200704292037.06021.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
Message-ID: <47975.203.120.68.72.1178006321.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> On Friday 27 April 2007 22:12:36 Don Hensley wrote:
>>
>> Something I'm a bit curious about: Does anyone on this list actually
>> have a
>> Vista box up and running?
>>
>> One of the real problems I have, is that as all my systems are GNU/Linux
>> (I
>> left Windows behind quite some time ago), I really am hard pressed to
>> actually get into technical problems with Vista.
>>
>> I can read what information is available, and I can see the impossible
> problem
>> presented in the "If you can't open it, you don't own it" aspect of any
>> proprietary software.
>>
>> And the underling problems with DRM are apparent as a simple exercise in
>> logic.
>>
>> The problem is "How do I explain to a Vista user, or prospective Vista
>> user,
>> exactly what Freedom his software lacks (and what freedoms he is giving
>> up
> by
>> using Vista), when I don't even use it at all?"
>>
>> That is a point by point issue that perhaps we could work on getting
>> into a
>> form that might reach "Joe Sixpack", or "Anonymous".
>>
>> Every time I get serious about explaining this, I see eyeballs glaze
>> over.
>> Well what can I say, I am an engineer by training, a hacker by
>> inclination
>> (not the hacker the news media has corrupted the honorable title into).
>>
>> So how do I reach the average end user?
>>
>> I don't believe it's a requirement to reach "Granny", she will come to
>> it on
>> her own, or go with whatever the family geek sets up for her. (I get all
>> my
>> 'old people' because either I am recommended, or they have had such a
>> bad
>> experience with Windows that they are out searching for something
>> better,
> and
>> run across me).
>>
>> So long as it's set up for them, they are the easiest bunch I know of to
>> get
>> to be happy GNU/Linux users. Notice that I am in a de facto manner,
>> simply
>> becoming a non evil Redmond for them. I have made it all work, from the
> first
>> time they use it, I hold their hand as long as is needed, and am
>> available
> to
>> help (i.e.; fix it.) when they do have a problem.
>>
>> This is not "Joe Sixpack" gets a distro and tries to install it...
> Games?????
>> where are games??? No Second Life! Why!!
>>
>> But then gaming is not often a big thing with my clients, maybe poker or
>> solitaire. Frozen Bubble is always a big hit.
>>
>> So any suggestions would help. That's what I would like to see, a FAQ
>> that
> is
>> written to show point by point why one not only should, but will benefit
> from
>> using GNU/Linux and why one should not, and will not benefit from using
>> Vista.
>>
>> Why giving up some things that Microsoft is using to entice you (and
>> developers) with, is the right thing to do. And why it's going to
>> ultimately
>> benefit them to forgo some of those poisonous things.
>>
>> And the FAQ needs to be in easy to understand terms and verbiage.
>>
>> As Jacob and I not long ago discovered, what seems obvious to one person
>> (or
>> age group) may not be obvious at all to another. This is one of the
>> things
>> that needs to be considered when creating any sort of "come on over,
>> this is
>> great" sort of page, be it a FAQ or otherwise.
>>
>> I await some feedback from all of you.
>>
>> As most of you know (I hope) feedback that does not agree with my take
>> is
> fine
>> with me.
>>
>> I'll leave you all with this observation about life (at least my life,
>> and
>> I'll bet yours too):
>>
>> "I have never, ever, not once, learned anything from someone that agreed
> with
>> me." If he agreed what was there to learn from him?
>>
>> Don.
>
> My employer requires me to test web-based software on the latest and
> greatest
> Windows rubbish (yes, it is rubbish).  So, he went to Dell and bought a
> copy
> of Vista and it came with a computer free of charge (the computer was
> roughly
> $200 more than the cost of the version of Vista installed, and he got a
> $250
> rebate).
>
> As for the things that Joe Schmoe would notice that are broken about it,
> well,
> let's enumerate shall we?
>
> 1) This smartphone (PalmOS) came with a driver and install disc for win32.
> Well, it doesn't work.  I get a GPF whenever I try to install software
> onto
> the phone using this software.  This is just a Treo 700p from Verizon
> Wireless.  Very common.  Yet, I plugged it into my Kubuntu box and as soon
> as
> I loaded the visor kernel module, this thing worked pretty well with
> kpilot.
>
> 2) *MANY* programs are 100% incompatible with Vista.  This allSnap program
> I
> use in order to snap windows to the edge (a feature that most X window
> managers have had for quite some time) won't execute.  Windows "detects
> problems" and is "unable to resolve" them.
>
> 3) I picked up a Linksys wireless network extender (let's you plug in
> ethernet
> and access your wireless network) and tried to configure it, thinking the
> windows install would work the quickest (sorry, I'm lazy sometimes).
> Well,
> when I went to run the configuration tool on the CDROM, I got a "windows
> has
> detected a problem" and it wouldn't run.  I called their (Linksys')
> support
> number and found out that Vista is not supported.  So I asked what IP and
> port and default authentication information was the default for the
> device,
> plugged it into my GNU/Linux/KDE box and it only took me 2 minutes to do
> what
> I'd just wasted more than ten times that trying to do with Vista.
>
> 4) This thing hits the 3D for everything.  My machine pumps out a
> considerable
> amount of heat.  Not overheating, but I can only imagine how much extra
> juice
> it's burning needlessly.
>
> 5) The graphics drivers for Vista are crap.  Both ATI and NVidia are
> playing
> hell trying to get their drivers to work.  These nvidia drivers on this
> machine now leave yellow lines on the screen during boot, and when the
> screensaver runs I get all sorts of weird artifacts on the screen.  ATI
> users
> of Vista will have scarier stories on that as ATI doesn't know how to
> write
> drivers for general computers to save their lives.
>
> 6) USB doesn't wake up after resume.  If you have your wireless adapter on
> USB, you have to constantly disconnect and reconnect it when resuming from
> sleep.
>
> 7) Everything asks you if you want to send data to Microsoft.  They ask if
> you
> want to "help improve Microsoft products" for damn-near everything.  These
> options are checked by default, and have "(Recommended)" next to the "Yes"
> radio button.
>
> Well, that's all I feel like typing right now.  I may put up a second
> edition
> of this later.  Dunno.  I feel better now.
>
> --
> ~ manchicken <><
> (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer.
> The number of the beast - vi vi vi
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> ~ Michael D. Stemle, Jr. <><
> (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer
> The number of the beast - vi vi vi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
I think your article served as a good review for (bad)Vista. Consider
archive it somewhere. On a weblog or something =)

Lam YongXian
Adolf AT www.adolflam.com



From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 05:39:19 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:39:19 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Microsoft Says "Vista has less bugs than XP"
In-Reply-To: <deb31e820704291900y6cbb24cjecbbbbdb9913258@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3922422b0704281005r4d04e8feg5f1152f1c449be8f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704291409.42608.Don@donhensley.com>
	<39968.192.168.1.1.1177881871.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
	<200704291541.41292.Don@donhensley.com>
	<deb31e820704291900y6cbb24cjecbbbbdb9913258@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48399.203.120.68.71.1178012359.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


>> RMS had the correct vision, and the will. He just lacked the funding and
>> the
>> exposure. More of a timing problem, and a resource problem, else Windows
>> would have been more of a footnote then any thing else. IMO.
>
> His vision is one of freedom. Note that he care neither about
> convenient nor low learning curve. If he needs to execute 10 commands
> of free software just to view a Youtube video, he would do it rather
> than use non-free software like Adobe Flash.
>
> Similarly, if Internet Banking requires usage of the non-free Sun's
> Java, we should refuse to use it and instead take a walk to the bank.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Koh Choon Lin
> Singapore GNU Group
>
> singapore.gnu.googlepages.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

Yes, I thought of this and I agree, to some extend. But I wonder if it is
too idealistic? Of cause, it is an ultimate goal to will move forward to.
But in the miss of accomplishing goal, should we continue to
keep-in-contact with the rest of the people?

Lam YongXian
Adolf AT www.adolflam.com



From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 06:17:26 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:17:26 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <3922422b0704301959u7993ceefpe0ca41162a7634da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<44b952b0704292208p61d5b893p427e5bcdd272e0d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46368B79.6050300@stevew.net> <4636D69D.1966.367357@d_n.Loryx.com>
	<3922422b0704301959u7993ceefpe0ca41162a7634da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>

Of course, you don't really need to reboot just because you changed
"something". Unless it is the kernel.

2007/5/1, Ringo Kamens <2600denver at gmail.com>:
> Did you know that you NEVER need to reboot *NIX unless you are
> changing something?
> Certainly not true. I love GNU/Linux as much as the next guy but we
> should keep ourselves honest.
> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>
> On 4/30/07, D'n Russler <d_n at loryx.com> wrote:
> > On 1 May 2007 at 1:36, Steve Welsh wrote:
> >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> >
> > > > common-sense system folder setups
> > >
> > > *NIX doesn't have folders, it has directories
> >
> > ,,, to add to this, the differences between a *NIX directory and a *Doze folder are:
> >
> >         1) A directory is a file just like any other, that keeps POINTERS to files,
> >         not the files themselves. So when you move files from one directory to another
> >         you're not really moving anything, just updating the contents of two files. This
> >         is why "mv" on *NIX is blindingly faster than "move" on *Doze.
> >
> >         2) Since your files exist independently of which directories point to them, a file
> >         can be in two, twenty, two-thousand places at once. Not copies; not "shortcuts";
> >         the same file. This is called "links" in *NIX.
> >
> >         So if you change /home/me/schedule.txt, and /home/business/office/sched.txt is
> >         a link to this (that is, the same file), BOTH are changed at once. Which is "the"
> >         file? Yes. Both are. Same file, different views of it.
> >
> >
> >  - that's why when you
> > > want
> > > to list the files in a directory on any windoze dos-emulator
> > > console,
> > > you type 'dir'.
> > >
> >
> >
> > > . It's not a problem if I'm just using a
> > > > package manager, but it gets very difficult if I ever want to do
> > > something
> > > > manually. Perhaps experienced users have a better understanding of
> > > why
> > > > things are the way they are
> > >
> > > Yes, learn about the UNIX file system that M$ was trying to
> > > duplicate in
> > > Vista, and failed miserably. Read about the underlying system -
> > > EXT2,
> > > EXT3, Reiser!
> >
> >         Simply put, *Doze was built upon Good Ol' CP/M - One User, One Computer, One
> > Function. And it hasn't progressed. Because the old FAT systems, then NTFS, now
> > whatever else M$ rolls out, all view a file as "belonging" to its folder, things will never
> > improve.
> >
> > And it gets worse. All *Doze systems, when they access, say, C:\, initialize (read) all
> > subfolders under C:\... and one level under that. So if you have a folder under C:\ with say
> > 1,000 files in it, EVERY time you click on C: the Application (*Doze) reopens it. Again and
> > again and again. This is why you have C:\Program Files\Company\... , so that the system
> > doesn't grind itself to a halt while reopening C:.
> >
> > Find out why Linux boxes *never* need to be
> > > defragmented,
> > > etc, etc.
> >
> > Ok, I'll give this one away too :) This is because all file storage is handled by something
> > called a OPERATING SYSTEM (Linux, Unix, etc-ix) whose job is to manage your computer's
> > hardware for you. Since *Doze is NOT an O/S, but an application which -- by DESIGN --
> > violates the OSI model separating levels of system functionality (email me if you want more
> > explanation). *Doze has no control of what's going on, so it loses open files, forgets you
> > removed your memory stick, and can't find your WiFi net which was working fine just a
> > moment ago.
> >
> > Ever use Word and have it crash? Notice you can't reopen the doc, until you REBOOT?
> >
> > Did you know that you NEVER need to reboot *NIX unless you are changing something?
> >
> > ... and back to our main topic, *NIX will never disable your hardware; lie to you about what
> > it's doing; change your programs without your knowledge, agreement, or understanding; or
> > serruptitiously report to an outside party what you have and are doing.
> >
> > The Evil Vista does all this, and smiles at you while it's doing it.
> >
> > >
> > > , but I just wish all the programs were in
> > > > subfolders of one central applications folder!
> > >
> >
> > Much of this comes from people viewing their files as a flat list of them, rather than in a "tree"
> > -- the *Doze "View Folders" option that *Doze Explorer resists with all its might. I've found
> > that people who started in computing with a "flat" view of files have a lot of difficulty changing
> > their perspective to seeing files arranged as a "tree".
> >
> > >  It's my understanding that
> > > > the folders are the way they are because of limitations which
> > > existed
> > > > twenty
> > > > years ago, but which aren't a problem today.
> >
> > OH they still are, and are they ever! See above, please.
> >
> > >
> > > To an extent I agree - it pisses me off when I can't find where
> > > the
> > > particular distro has hidden something - especially when it has
> > > been
> > > standard *NIX practice for about 20 years. Fedora has a wonderful
> > > facility, that beats the shit out of anything *ever* offered by M$
> > > -
> > > 'locate'.
> >
> > Not to mention grep... find... :) I've found that *Doze "Search", besides being incredibly
> > annoying to use ("Do you want to search for files? Do you want to search for music? Do you
> > want to --" "SHUT UP already, let me look for what I need!"), often lies. The same search run
> > with Explorer's Search will very often NOT find what grep-for-*Doze will.
> >
> > > Essentially ALL M$ offerings (M$ Access particularly springs to mind
> > > -
> > > plus *all* their OS) are extensions of single user systems
> >
> > Yes, yes, yes. One User, One Process, One Computer. Deal with it. Or upgrade to *NIX.
> >
> > > Let's all of us just concentrate on spreading the message that Vista
> > > is
> > > a heap of ordure, that only intends to rob us of *all* control of
> > > *OUR*
> > > computers!!
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 30/04/07, Fred Okuma <fred.k at ieee.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> At 19:36 -0700 2007/04/29, member greenarrow1 wrote:
> > > >> >...This is one of the problems I see in Linux which a new user
> > > would
> > > >> >not be able to
> > > >> >comprehend or figure out.  ...
> > > >>
> >
> > Ask. There are thousands of people who will very patiently explain anything you want to
> > know about *NIX, and help you move from M$.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocate mailing list
> > Advocate at badvista.org
> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From hieu.d.hoang at gmail.com  Tue May  1 06:43:45 2007
From: hieu.d.hoang at gmail.com (Hieu Hoang)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:43:45 +0700
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<44b952b0704292208p61d5b893p427e5bcdd272e0d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46368B79.6050300@stevew.net> <4636D69D.1966.367357@d_n.Loryx.com>
	<3922422b0704301959u7993ceefpe0ca41162a7634da@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4f12b0dd0705010343m2056b9a1v6f69e31aca4c7742@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/1/07, Sunnz <sunnzy at gmail.com> wrote:
> "something". Unless it is the kernel.

Or after editing the root's disk's partition table. parted tells me to
umount it, but I can't figure out a way to do that without rebooting.

Way better than rebooting just to apply a security patch though, and
various apps that require it.

Hieu


From Don at donhensley.com  Tue May  1 06:50:09 2007
From: Don at donhensley.com (Don Hensley)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 03:50:09 -0700
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<3922422b0704301959u7993ceefpe0ca41162a7634da@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200705010350.09362.Don@donhensley.com>


Actually there are many conditions that will require a full reboot of any 
GNU/Linux computer.

Most changes (especially those that go well) do not require reboots, this much 
is true.

Where the legendary reliability of GNU/Linux comes into play is in the fact 
that they can have astounding up time, unlike most Windows systems.

But anyone with any real hands on experience with operating systems will tell 
you that troubles can and do occur. And if it's bad enough it will require a 
reboot - no matter what the operating system is.

But it will happen much, much, much, less often with GNU/Linux.

Don.
 *****************************
 On Tuesday 01 May 2007 03:17 am, Sunnz wrote:
Of course, you don't really need to reboot just because you changed
"something". Unless it is the kernel.

-- 
GNU/Linux is the future.
Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org


From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 07:36:24 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:36:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] An ad campaign idea
In-Reply-To: <34368.203.120.68.72.1178001271.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1301.192.168.1.1.1177793906.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
	<34368.203.120.68.72.1178001271.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <47656.138.162.128.55.1178019384.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

I wouldn't necessarily say all. But the name is not "BadMac" or "BadXP."
Again, I think that we shouldn't spread our efforts too thin.

Jacob

>
>> I suggest that we keep Mac out of it. Our focus is against Vista. I know
>> that the FSF stands behind GNU/Linux, but our aim is against Vista,
>> specifically. Even Mac would be better than Vista. Is that agreeable?
>>
>> Jacob
>
>
> You mean this campaign is created just to attack Windows Vista thats all?
>
> Lam YongXian
> Adolf AT www.adolflam.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>




From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 08:02:19 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 22:02:19 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>

Just started a "User help users" page on binary freedom:
http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Users_Help_Users

It is an idea adopted from this Xbox Linux page:
http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Users_Help_Users

Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
installing Linux on their computer.

However I don't think it is rational to _only_ install "totally free"
distro's like gNewsense. People may be dependent on different things
and we shall help them 'free' as much of their computer as possible,
not forcing our own solution down their throat. I myself would even
merely convert their M$ document to OpenOffice document if that's the
case.

That said, you can't be familiar with every distro out there, so you
might like to list distros that you are familiar with.

My English isn't very good... so my message here or on the wiki may be
unclear, so please, feel free to clean things up!! Thanks!!!

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 08:41:23 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:41:23 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Vista first impressions.
In-Reply-To: <55567.138.162.128.56.1177934516.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
References: <55567.138.162.128.56.1177934516.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <36659.192.169.41.33.1178023283.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> Test machine was an MPC P4, 1GB RAM, 80GB SATA, ATI X300/X550. Install
> platform was 32 bit.
>
> We have one thing working for us. The learning curve from XP to Vista is
> huge. The start menu is kind of confusing, the window animations are
> actually dizzying. Everytime you click on something, it asks you, "Windows
> needs confirmation to continue. You clicked on this program: <program x>
> Do you wish to continue?" EVERY time.
>
> 3 of the 4 thumbdrives I used, worked. But my Jump Drive Secure software
> didn't work. I couldn't access my encrypted partition on it. The other 2
> thumb drives were a Memorex 512MB Travel Drive, and a SimpleTech Bonzai SD
> reader. The non-working one was a GenX 128MB (Made by Samsung, the same
> company that makes XBox CD/DVD-ROMS!).
>
> Apache 2.2 for Windows wouldn't install. It just wouldn't.
>
> The ActiveX controls for VB that were previously installed on XP by
> default seem not to be there. This was discovered just by running some VB
> apps that I had from a past life.
>
> It does run some of the 16 bit applications that I had.
>
> It played MP3's, and an MPG, but would not play the AVI that I had, though
> I'm not entirely sure which AVI format it was.
>
> Since Vista is entirely different than XP inasmuch as the interface is
> redesigned, we may have some great leverage from that. The new learning
> curve for Vista would be just as steep as learning a GNU/Linux GUI.
>
> I'll try playing with Vista a little more today. I'll report more as the
> investigation continues.
>
> Jacob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

Well, at least your vista still installs =D And yes, we need this kind of
stories and info on the badvista information archive, or whatever you call
it.

Lam YongXian
Adolf AT www.adolflam.com



From open07 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 08:43:54 2007
From: open07 at gmail.com (Koh Choon Lin)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:43:54 +0000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>

> Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
> which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
> of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
> installing Linux on their computer.

Since this page is likely to contain instructions, should Binary
Freedom dual license the page, adding the GPL?



Regards

Koh Choon Lin
Singapore GNU Group

singapore.gnu.googlepages.com


From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 08:44:41 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:44:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate]  A game on Vista
Message-ID: <49521.138.162.128.38.1178023481.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

I decided to earn my pay, yesterday. I sat down to play "Pocket Tanks." It
is installed on the computer at work with Vista. If anyone here has played
"Pocket Tanks" before, they know it's not the most graphic-intensive game
made. For those of you who haven't played it, it's much like "Artillery"
and the old "Gorilla" game in QBasic, except that this has different
weapons.

On an XP machine, this game runs fine. Machine requirements are 233 MHz
CPU, DirectX3, and a card that supports 32 bit color. Very low
requirements. However, in the menus, the system is slow as can be on a HT
3.2 GHz, ATI X300/550 Vista machine. It almost stops showing the
animations, and in truth, it would be better because the animations are so
choppy. The mouse reaction slows while in the game.

Freecell has been upgraded to actually DEAL the cards and give you
tool-tips. Otherwise, there is no big difference.

Maybe I'll play Solitare for you all today.

Jacob



From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 08:49:39 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:49:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
 experience.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3298.138.162.128.38.1178023779.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

I was thinking about how nice a page like this would be. Nice thinking.

Jacob

> Just started a "User help users" page on binary freedom:
> http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Users_Help_Users
>
> It is an idea adopted from this Xbox Linux page:
> http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Users_Help_Users
>
> Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
> which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
> of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
> installing Linux on their computer.
>
> However I don't think it is rational to _only_ install "totally free"
> distro's like gNewsense. People may be dependent on different things
> and we shall help them 'free' as much of their computer as possible,
> not forcing our own solution down their throat. I myself would even
> merely convert their M$ document to OpenOffice document if that's the
> case.
>
> That said, you can't be familiar with every distro out there, so you
> might like to list distros that you are familiar with.
>
> My English isn't very good... so my message here or on the wiki may be
> unclear, so please, feel free to clean things up!! Thanks!!!
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>




From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 09:12:52 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:12:52 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help Spread the word
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120704300829l39511e5elf9da74deb1834559@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d920a27f0704300825j1e76cbacy646d6186a1b717bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120704300829l39511e5elf9da74deb1834559@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57525.203.120.68.66.1178025172.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> Oh, didn't notice there was such graphics that I could use, thanks,
> this would be great!
>
> Now, has anyone seen the Warner Wake up call post on that site?
>
> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/actions/warner_music_wake_up_call
>
> I think Warener is very sturnborn and indeed needs a wake up call...
> unfortunately I am not in the US, but those in the US should help out
> if you can.
>
> 2007/5/1, Yasith Lahiru Vidanaarachchi <yasith.vidanaarachchi at gmail.com>:
>> Add a defective by design button to your blog, website etc. and spread
>> the
>> word that DRM is bad, you can get buttons and banners from
>>
>> http://defectivebydesign.org/promo/button
>>
>> I've already added a banner and a button to my blog at
>> www.tuxv.blogspot.com
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> --
>> \ \ / /__ _  __ (_) | |_ |  |_
>> .\ V// _` |(_-<  |  ||  _| |  '  \
>>   |_| \__,_|/__/ |_| \__||_||_|
>>   http://tuxv.blogspot.com
>>
>> Don't send me word attachments.
>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

We can send emails. Anyone has the contact details?

Lam YongXian
Adolf AT www.adolflam.com



From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 09:17:54 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:17:54 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010617l7d5c4678v1e9294836a7737a9@mail.gmail.com>

Huh? What do you mean? This is just a list of people who can help install Linux.

2007/5/1, Koh Choon Lin <open07 at gmail.com>:
> > Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
> > which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
> > of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
> > installing Linux on their computer.
>
> Since this page is likely to contain instructions, should Binary
> Freedom dual license the page, adding the GPL?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Koh Choon Lin
> Singapore GNU Group
>
> singapore.gnu.googlepages.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 09:20:18 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:20:18 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <3298.138.162.128.38.1178023779.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<3298.138.162.128.38.1178023779.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010620j61977842mdde8db878a1e6cce@mail.gmail.com>

Jacob I added a catergory(?) for the U.S. and put your entry under it,
feel free to change you details. (I don't know if you actually live in
the U.S., just guessing. There are no NC state in Australia.)

2007/5/1, Jacob Maynard <indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com>:
> I was thinking about how nice a page like this would be. Nice thinking.
>
> Jacob
>
> > Just started a "User help users" page on binary freedom:
> > http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Users_Help_Users
> >
> > It is an idea adopted from this Xbox Linux page:
> > http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Users_Help_Users
> >
> > Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
> > which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
> > of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
> > installing Linux on their computer.
> >
> > However I don't think it is rational to _only_ install "totally free"
> > distro's like gNewsense. People may be dependent on different things
> > and we shall help them 'free' as much of their computer as possible,
> > not forcing our own solution down their throat. I myself would even
> > merely convert their M$ document to OpenOffice document if that's the
> > case.
> >
> > That said, you can't be familiar with every distro out there, so you
> > might like to list distros that you are familiar with.
> >
> > My English isn't very good... so my message here or on the wiki may be
> > unclear, so please, feel free to clean things up!! Thanks!!!
> >
> > --
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocate mailing list
> > Advocate at badvista.org
> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From gregory at civicactions.com  Tue May  1 09:25:56 2007
From: gregory at civicactions.com (Gregory Heller)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:25:56 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] projectors for an ad campaign
In-Reply-To: <4636D5A9.6060906@binaryfreedom.info>
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>	<200704301943.07322.Don@donhensley.com>	<3922422b0704301947v70ba40dcpef0309e7d51a22bf@mail.gmail.com>	<200704302110.44408.Don@donhensley.com>	<4636CBB5.40807@civicactions.com>
	<4636D5A9.6060906@binaryfreedom.info>
Message-ID: <46373FE4.3020802@civicactions.com>

I just used a panasonic portable size projector.  I used it to project
text on a building facade:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gregoryh/260352352/

I bought it for about $700 us from tigerdirect

rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
> Yes I remember I seen this guys at HOPE last year,
> very good point, BTW can you tell me the name and brand of the projector 
> you used?
> did you rent it? looks like you know about the topic can you tell me a 
> cheap place to buy one like it or similar?
>
> Thanks
> Chris Fernandez
> BinaryFreedom founder
>
>
> Gregory Heller wrote:
>   
>> see these guys http://graffitiresearchlab.com/?page_id=32#video
>>
>> there are a bunch of folks in NY who have done some stuff like this with
>> very powerful projectors.
>>
>> I did it with a mediocre projector at night on the apple store in soho
>> on oct 3
>>
>> Don Hensley wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> The only thing about that is I don't know just how much light a digital 
>>> projector can pump out.
>>>
>>> Think about it, the equation here is like illuminating a building wall with a 
>>> flash light, or a flood light. They will both do it but the effective light 
>>> from the flash light will most likely not be observable to the human eye, if 
>>> spread over much area and distance.
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar enough with the digital projectors to be able to say much, 
>>> except that I know the ones I have seen (like at presentations, etc.) would 
>>> never work... more like the flashlight, if you see what I mean. But as I said 
>>> for all I know they make the digital versions in major big high lumen output 
>>> versions.
>>>
>>> I know I would be skeptical of a old style movie projector making a very 
>>> brilliant display if used on a really large building... it too would be more 
>>> on the flashlight end (just a lot brighter then any digital unit I know 
>>> about) But as I said, my knowledge of digital units is very small.
>>>
>>> And do they make digital projectors for movies? I thought that was mostly, if 
>>> not all, more like a slide projector, or over head projector.
>>>
>>> Don.
>>> ***************************** 
>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:47 pm, Ringo Kamens wrote:
>>> We don't need a dedicated one for this. How about we borrow one from a
>>> university, camera club, store, friend, etc? We could probably even
>>> rent one. I'm not talking about a old school film one, I'm talking
>>> about a nice digital projector that they use for like powerpoints or
>>> cheap movies.
>>> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>>>
>>> On 4/30/07, Don Hensley <Don at donhensley.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> If you can find one anymore, I suspect a thrift store would almost give you
>>>> the thing - 5 - 10 bucks, but at 10 bucks it better be in real good shape.
>>>> Anyway that would be my opine.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it is also barely possible that at least some of them have become
>>>> 'collectibles'...
>>>>
>>>> As to the lens to cover what you want, and if the projector would be bright
>>>> enough, you would just have to experiment. But any one in a camera club or
>>>> class, (even digital uses a lens) should be able to help you right out on
>>>> these issues.
>>>>
>>>> Or just try one out, if you can find one. Some one you know, probably has
>>>> parents or grand parents that no doubt have one in storage some place. They
>>>> were the tech of the day, back when. I'd think they'd just give it to you.
>>>>
>>>> Don.
>>>>  ***********************
>>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 07:30 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>>>> I am very near Fenway Stadium in Boston, and right in front of my
>>>> building there is a nice building.. how much could it cost one of this
>>>> projectors with enough lens?
>>>> BinaryFreedom is going to start selling t-shirts soon with those funs
>>>> we plan in buying things like this to me our activism more visible.
>>>>
>>>> Chris F.
>>>>
>>>> Don Hensley wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> If it was me, I'd just dump my video to film, like super 8, or 16 mm (70
>>>>> mm would be perfect, but way to expensive both for film and the
>>>>> projector).
>>>>>
>>>>> Then any old home movie projector  --the thrift stores no doubt still
>>>>> have some around, I have a few some place myself --like me relics of
>>>>> another time...
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway you could really cover a large building that way, so long as the
>>>>> lens would focus it (you could change the lens if you needed to).  The
>>>>> darker the night the better, and that's the rub, until you are into
>>>>> something like a 'drive in movie' projector you are limited by the bulb
>>>>> in the projector. Still it could be done to good effect with some
>>>>> patience for a moonless night and not too bright a set of street lamps.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have done large drawings this way. Project the drawing on a building
>>>>> and then trace it for later painting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don.
>>>>>  *********************************************
>>>>>  On Monday 30 April 2007 04:21 pm, rek2GNU/Linux wrote:
>>>>> I do like the projector idea.. what type of projector is needed for this?
>>>>> hmmm this brings a lot of ideas... */puts evil smile */
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Advocate mailing list
>>>> Advocate at badvista.org
>>>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GNU/Linux is the future.
>>>> Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
>>>> Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Advocate mailing list
>>>> Advocate at badvista.org
>>>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Advocate mailing list
>>> Advocate at badvista.org
>>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>>
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
>   

-- 
----
Gregory Heller
AIM/SKYPE: GregoryHeller
http://www.CivicActions.com

Changing the world one node at a time!

The content of this email message is licensed under a  Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License, Some Rights Reserved. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/




From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 09:26:28 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:26:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
 experience.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010620j61977842mdde8db878a1e6cce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<3298.138.162.128.38.1178023779.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
	<b35fa3120705010620j61977842mdde8db878a1e6cce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12676.138.162.128.38.1178025988.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

Good Thinking. Thanks.

Jacob

> Jacob I added a catergory(?) for the U.S. and put your entry under it,
> feel free to change you details. (I don't know if you actually live in
> the U.S., just guessing. There are no NC state in Australia.)
>
> 2007/5/1, Jacob Maynard <indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com>:
>> I was thinking about how nice a page like this would be. Nice thinking.
>>
>> Jacob
>>
>> > Just started a "User help users" page on binary freedom:
>> > http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Users_Help_Users
>> >
>> > It is an idea adopted from this Xbox Linux page:
>> > http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Users_Help_Users
>> >
>> > Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
>> > which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
>> > of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
>> > installing Linux on their computer.
>> >
>> > However I don't think it is rational to _only_ install "totally free"
>> > distro's like gNewsense. People may be dependent on different things
>> > and we shall help them 'free' as much of their computer as possible,
>> > not forcing our own solution down their throat. I myself would even
>> > merely convert their M$ document to OpenOffice document if that's the
>> > case.
>> >
>> > That said, you can't be familiar with every distro out there, so you
>> > might like to list distros that you are familiar with.
>> >
>> > My English isn't very good... so my message here or on the wiki may be
>> > unclear, so please, feel free to clean things up!! Thanks!!!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Advocate mailing list
>> > Advocate at badvista.org
>> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>






From open07 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 09:40:27 2007
From: open07 at gmail.com (Koh Choon Lin)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:40:27 +0000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010617l7d5c4678v1e9294836a7737a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010617l7d5c4678v1e9294836a7737a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deb31e820705010640g4982b976ge6da28243ffde85c@mail.gmail.com>

> Huh? What do you mean? This is just a list of people who can help install Linux.
>

Sorry to say I made a mistake. Had assumed this is an instruction page
to free software. Anyway, I feel there is no need to put down
individual names for each tasks (though this is fine). Instead, we
should list the various groups (FSFs, GLUGs, FSGs, etc..) around the
region if they are interested to help. The distribution of service
would be up to the discretion of the group itself.


Regards

Koh Choon Lin
Singapore GNU Group

singapore.gnu.googlepages.com


From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 09:45:40 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:45:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
 experience.
In-Reply-To: <deb31e820705010640g4982b976ge6da28243ffde85c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010617l7d5c4678v1e9294836a7737a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010640g4982b976ge6da28243ffde85c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24917.138.162.128.38.1178027140.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

This would be for "New Users" or users that need help with installation or
other computer expertise. It would also be useful to rally support in your
region. I think it's a great page idea.

Jacob


>> Huh? What do you mean? This is just a list of people who can help
>> install Linux.
>>
>
> Sorry to say I made a mistake. Had assumed this is an instruction page
> to free software. Anyway, I feel there is no need to put down
> individual names for each tasks (though this is fine). Instead, we
> should list the various groups (FSFs, GLUGs, FSGs, etc..) around the
> region if they are interested to help. The distribution of service
> would be up to the discretion of the group itself.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Koh Choon Lin
> Singapore GNU Group
>
> singapore.gnu.googlepages.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>




From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 09:55:35 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:55:35 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <deb31e820705010640g4982b976ge6da28243ffde85c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010617l7d5c4678v1e9294836a7737a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010640g4982b976ge6da28243ffde85c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010655k1c8653am2cdb34215ac893ee@mail.gmail.com>

Yea LUGs are great, but I think there is already a list of LUG around
the world, is there?

I think if we are to 'preach' about Linux, it would be good to give a
list of place where people can get help doing it. LUG is a good one,
but I think User Help User also helps in area that LUG can't help,
e.g. set up a good wireless network on the new user's place... LUG and
User To User could go hand in hand also, people can be meet at LUG,
then go to the new user's place to set up stuff. The possibility
should be limitless.


2007/5/1, Koh Choon Lin <open07 at gmail.com>:
> > Huh? What do you mean? This is just a list of people who can help install Linux.
> >
>
> Sorry to say I made a mistake. Had assumed this is an instruction page
> to free software. Anyway, I feel there is no need to put down
> individual names for each tasks (though this is fine). Instead, we
> should list the various groups (FSFs, GLUGs, FSGs, etc..) around the
> region if they are interested to help. The distribution of service
> would be up to the discretion of the group itself.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Koh Choon Lin
> Singapore GNU Group
>
> singapore.gnu.googlepages.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From manchicken at members.fsf.org  Tue May  1 10:29:52 2007
From: manchicken at members.fsf.org (Michael D. Stemle, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:29:52 -0500
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <200705010350.09362.Don@donhensley.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010317y1731b45eg55fec1c632773062@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705010350.09362.Don@donhensley.com>
Message-ID: <200705010929.52771.manchicken@members.fsf.org>

On Tuesday 01 May 2007 05:50:09 Don Hensley wrote:
> Actually there are many conditions that will require a full reboot of any
> GNU/Linux computer.
>
> Most changes (especially those that go well) do not require reboots, this
> much is true.
>
> Where the legendary reliability of GNU/Linux comes into play is in the fact
> that they can have astounding up time, unlike most Windows systems.
>
> But anyone with any real hands on experience with operating systems will
> tell you that troubles can and do occur. And if it's bad enough it will
> require a reboot - no matter what the operating system is.
>
> But it will happen much, much, much, less often with GNU/Linux.
>
> Don.
>  *****************************
>  On Tuesday 01 May 2007 03:17 am, Sunnz wrote:
> Of course, you don't really need to reboot just because you changed
> "something". Unless it is the kernel.

The only time I ever reboot my wife's machine is when I upgrade to a new 
version of Kubuntu or we go out of town and I think I can save some dough on 
the power bill.

-- 
~ Michael D. Stemle, Jr. <><
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer
The number of the beast - vi vi vi


From rek2 at binaryfreedom.info  Tue May  1 10:55:09 2007
From: rek2 at binaryfreedom.info (rek2 GNU/Linux LO LO LO)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:55:09 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the
	technical	experience.
In-Reply-To: <deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	<deb31e820705010543k6390cd42t34fc83000753b45a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463754CD.4020705@binaryfreedom.info>

Koh Choon Lin wrote:
>> Not all people may have the expertise to install OS on their computer,
>> which could be a great barrier for them even if they want to get rid
>> of M$'s restrictive OS. This page can list what people can help
>> installing Linux on their computer.
>>     
>
> Since this page is likely to contain instructions, should Binary
> Freedom dual license the page, adding the GPL?
>
>   
All the wiki is under the GFDL
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html

take a look at it, I think is a good license for documentation and text.

Chris Fernandez

-- 
FSF member #697
BinaryFreedom Founder
gNewSense Developer.
Freedom Figther.
the LOLOLO.


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From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 11:02:50 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:02:50 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu?
In-Reply-To: <46360D38.4040607@binaryfreedom.info>
References: <db122ee00704291229y64dff440te7d09bd5d63fd73e@mail.gmail.com>	<200704291308.59698.Don@donhensley.com>	<deb31e820704291852r24456532j22c11ae279d81821@mail.gmail.com>	<a22c6d110704300638i243a303dsf7460a4ab71e7f62@mail.gmail.com>	<4635FC02.9000908@gatech.edu>
	<a22c6d110704300732n6496cbfdhabe33a00a23a69f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<46360D38.4040607@binaryfreedom.info>
Message-ID: <41285.192.169.41.42.1178031770.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> I can't agree 100% I do agree in some blending but with out changing the
> core of our ideals..
>
> First lets call it GNU or GNU/Linux,
> second, you choose to buy that nice 3d card... now you must use the
> proprietary driver.. I see there a choice you made that was the wrong
> choice.. in the small cases were the card came with your computer
> already, then I advise to
> help the people at http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/  for a real free
> driver..
>
> we can't promote proprietary drivers or anything non-free,
> we cant stop people from using it.. but you can't tell someone to use
> them neither..
> as of now gNewSense is the only distro we can promote.. if we don't like
> it then lets work in
> making gnewsense better, we are in need of developers to help...
>
> if this project is going to promote non-free I am going to stand on the
> side.
> what It though of this project was:
> 1. to point the defects  of Windows or any other proprietary OS later.
> so we can't shoot our own feet, are we in one side or the other.
> 2. to promote FreeSoftware with FreeSoftware OS to archive point 3.
> 3. we are trying to show people a choice but not to hook them up on
> steroids sacrificing our ideals to convince them to move. we are what we
> are.. we are not the open source community.. but the FreeSoftware
> community and we have political ideals.
> if they don't like it they never will, I agree that some people may need
> to open their eyes with some candy already in windows.. but I don't
> agree we should tell them that what they are doing is right.. or that
> running proprietary is right, that is for *them* to think and choose.
>
> we are the messengers they are the ones who need to make a choice we
> can't force them with candy till they give up, and as the messengers we
> have to always give the right example and messengers.. I don't whant to
> hear.. well the guys at badvista said is ok for me to run Windows as
> long I have gimp,openoffice,firefox... bla bla.. then we are missing the
> whole point.
> even do I say it again.. I do agree that we can blend a bit to archive a
> bigger result but we can do this with out compromising the root ideals.
>
> Chris F.
> --
>
> FSF member #697
> BinaryFreedom Founder
> gNewSense Developer.
> Freedom Figther.
> the LOLOLO.
> Spanish!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

I have to agree with you to a large extent. But in this world, what
separates people is the quality of communication between 2 parties. It is
not about giving in or giving out to/on them. I dun like to give excuses
for failures. I believe if we can truly let them understand the ultimate
goal of free-software, which is more than just those superficial gain,
they will join us.

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 11:25:19 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:25:19 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu? Well OT.
In-Reply-To: <a22c6d110704300849n1d6a0d1s6ea275d190707a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a22c6d110704300849n1d6a0d1s6ea275d190707a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43610.203.120.68.71.1178033119.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>

> Do you intend to tolerate others who want to fight for some of the
> same causes or do you intend to alienate them?

Actually this is subjective. You need to understand that this campaign is
started by fsf and so the default people you are going to encounter here
will be more of serious free-software than typical open-source(TM) ones.

Talking about 'same causes', it depends. If the goal is simply "Destroy
Windows Vista", it is kind of straight forward and its easier to get
comrades. But if it is "Destroy Vista and its equivalents while upholding
free software", automatically we know we will lose people. The former one
will give us more people, but whats the use when they dun understand the
ultimate ideal of free software? It would just make us another group of
jealous people on Microsoft(R) success.

The latter may attract lesser people at the start, but if we can put the
message across properly, I believe we can not only get supporters, but
supporters that knows what they are supporting.

I understand your concern. We all thought of that before. We are trying to
teach you hoping that you'll understand, not alienating you =)

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From open07 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 11:28:56 2007
From: open07 at gmail.com (Koh Choon Lin)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:28:56 +0000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu?
In-Reply-To: <41285.192.169.41.42.1178031770.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <db122ee00704291229y64dff440te7d09bd5d63fd73e@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704291308.59698.Don@donhensley.com>
	<deb31e820704291852r24456532j22c11ae279d81821@mail.gmail.com>
	<a22c6d110704300638i243a303dsf7460a4ab71e7f62@mail.gmail.com>
	<4635FC02.9000908@gatech.edu>
	<a22c6d110704300732n6496cbfdhabe33a00a23a69f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<46360D38.4040607@binaryfreedom.info>
	<41285.192.169.41.42.1178031770.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <deb31e820705010828k285dc5c0m6b8494c624946f64@mail.gmail.com>

> I have to agree with you to a large extent. But in this world, what
> separates people is the quality of communication between 2 parties. It is
> not about giving in or giving out to/on them. I dun like to give excuses
> for failures. I believe if we can truly let them understand the ultimate
> goal of free-software, which is more than just those superficial gain,
> they will join us.

This is the correct step. We need to educate the public about software
freedom. That is why even in an undemocratic country, the citizens
still vote for the government as there is no awareness of freedom and
that it is normal to have no freedom, since the government takes care
of maintaining that image. Microsoft will not let its users go easily,
locking them in secret file formats and forging dependency.

PS: Yong Xian, did you get my email about collaboration?


Regards

Koh Choon Lin
Singapore GNU Group

singapore.gnu.googlepages.com


From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 11:31:16 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:31:16 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Vista owners
In-Reply-To: <87odl56ead.fsf@spider.localnet>
References: <20070428133919.25044.qmail@web35809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<87odl56ead.fsf@spider.localnet>
Message-ID: <45447.203.120.68.66.1178033476.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> Michael F??tsch <foetsch at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> How many people do we have here who'd be willing to invest some time and
>> effort? Could BadVista host this?
>>
>
> I really like this idea, and we could definitely host this kind of FAQ.
> Perhaps
> someone else on the list has a wiki they can open up for the purpose of
> getting
> it written?
>
> I'd be happy to chime in and help with some of the writing and editing as
> well.
> In fact I have a draft document around that was written to help people get
> started with free software when we were originally planning the BadVista
> site.
> I can dig that up and contribute it to the effort.
>
> --
> John Sullivan
> Campaigns Manager            | Phone: (617)542-5942 x23 |
> http://badvista.org
> 51 Franklin Street, 5th Fl.  | Fax:   (617)542-2652	| http://www.gnu.org
> Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA    | GPG:   AE8600B6          |
> http://www.fsf.org
>
> "Microsoft put all those functionality-crippling features into Vista
> because it
> wants to own the entertainment industry. This isn't how Microsoft spins
> it, of
> course. It maintains that it has no choice...It's all complete nonsense."
>     --Bruce Schneier, "DRM in Windows Vista"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

Count me in =)

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From Don at donhensley.com  Tue May  1 11:40:38 2007
From: Don at donhensley.com (Don Hensley)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:40:38 -0700
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <200705010929.52771.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705010350.09362.Don@donhensley.com>
	<200705010929.52771.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
Message-ID: <200705010840.38612.Don@donhensley.com>


Yes that's the reliability part - real uptime.

But for those of us that actually work (or in my case worked) in the field, 
there are simply many, way to many to list, reasons for having to reboot a 
GNU/Linux box.

Here's at least 3 or 4 examples on just this one page (I picked this page 
because it was handy for me, I'll bet you could Google many more such pages):
 
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/sec-sel-admincontrol.html 

And there are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of other perfectly valid 
reasons to reboot a GNU/Linux box. 

Quite a lot of them have to do with the state of proc which very often 
requires a full reboot to reflect the change in state of one thing or 
another. 

BTW, this is a real problem to get through to people at times, because the box 
is running just fine - and may continue to run just fine... but one or more 
changes may not be reflected in that running state until after a full reboot. 
This may leave the box unstable, or at risk to some attack vector.

Now Crashes that require a reboot are much more rare, but I've seen thousands 
of kernel panic conditions that were not fully recoverable from, without a 
reboot.

BUT: You will never see a "Blue Screen of Death" on a GNU/Linux box (except as 
a joke screen saver or as funny wallpaper). 

Don.
 ******************************
 On Tuesday 01 May 2007 07:29 am, Michael D. Stemle, Jr. wrote:
On Tuesday 01 May 2007 05:50:09 Don Hensley wrote:
> Actually there are many conditions that will require a full reboot of any
> GNU/Linux computer.
>
> Most changes (especially those that go well) do not require reboots, this
> much is true.
>
> Where the legendary reliability of GNU/Linux comes into play is in the fact
> that they can have astounding up time, unlike most Windows systems.
>
> But anyone with any real hands on experience with operating systems will
> tell you that troubles can and do occur. And if it's bad enough it will
> require a reboot - no matter what the operating system is.
>
> But it will happen much, much, much, less often with GNU/Linux.
>
> Don.
>  *****************************
>  On Tuesday 01 May 2007 03:17 am, Sunnz wrote:
> Of course, you don't really need to reboot just because you changed
> "something". Unless it is the kernel.

The only time I ever reboot my wife's machine is when I upgrade to a new
version of Kubuntu or we go out of town and I think I can save some dough on
the power bill.

-- 
GNU/Linux is the future.
Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org


From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 11:48:15 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 01:48:15 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu? Well OT.
In-Reply-To: <43610.203.120.68.71.1178033119.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <a22c6d110704300849n1d6a0d1s6ea275d190707a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<43610.203.120.68.71.1178033119.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010848k16e8db7tebf92277c05f758e@mail.gmail.com>

2007/5/2, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com>:
>The former one
> will give us more people, but whats the use when they dun understand the
> ultimate ideal of free software? It would just make us another group of
> jealous people on Microsoft(R) success.
>

However, if the motive for people to leave M$ is DRM, then we have won
half of the battle.

I have been reading all this posts, but I think it is going to be very
ineffective if we are to hard-sell free and only free software. There
are two things people are fighting for at the moment, DRM and closed
software, they are 2 different things, and I think it is better to
focus on DRM at the moment, everyone hates DRM when they finds out
about it, but the same people may not hate closed software... we must
first enlighten people about DRM, then promote free software as a
secondary area.

>
> ---
> Lam YongXian
> Adolflam.com
>
> FSF member #5279
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From manchicken at members.fsf.org  Tue May  1 11:49:23 2007
From: manchicken at members.fsf.org (Michael D. Stemle, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:49:23 -0500
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <200705010840.38612.Don@donhensley.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705010929.52771.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
	<200705010840.38612.Don@donhensley.com>
Message-ID: <200705011049.23672.manchicken@members.fsf.org>

> BUT: You will never see a "Blue Screen of Death" on a GNU/Linux box (except
> as a joke screen saver or as funny wallpaper).

Don't forget the screensaver.

-- 
~ Michael D. Stemle, Jr. <><
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer
The number of the beast - vi vi vi


From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 12:06:47 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 02:06:47 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Portland Project Linux
In-Reply-To: <200705010840.38612.Don@donhensley.com>
References: <26d2590704291936l44933e79h10a64fab67bd1374@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705010350.09362.Don@donhensley.com>
	<200705010929.52771.manchicken@members.fsf.org>
	<200705010840.38612.Don@donhensley.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705010906n153e8823n2c8f76ec92d236a0@mail.gmail.com>

Hehe, about BSOD:

http://www.miguelcarrasco.net/miguelcarrasco/2006/10/blue_screen_of_.html

2007/5/2, Don Hensley <Don at donhensley.com>:
>
> Yes that's the reliability part - real uptime.
>
> But for those of us that actually work (or in my case worked) in the field,
> there are simply many, way to many to list, reasons for having to reboot a
> GNU/Linux box.
>
> Here's at least 3 or 4 examples on just this one page (I picked this page
> because it was handy for me, I'll bet you could Google many more such pages):
>
> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/sec-sel-admincontrol.html
>
> And there are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of other perfectly valid
> reasons to reboot a GNU/Linux box.
>
> Quite a lot of them have to do with the state of proc which very often
> requires a full reboot to reflect the change in state of one thing or
> another.
>
> BTW, this is a real problem to get through to people at times, because the box
> is running just fine - and may continue to run just fine... but one or more
> changes may not be reflected in that running state until after a full reboot.
> This may leave the box unstable, or at risk to some attack vector.
>
> Now Crashes that require a reboot are much more rare, but I've seen thousands
> of kernel panic conditions that were not fully recoverable from, without a
> reboot.
>
> BUT: You will never see a "Blue Screen of Death" on a GNU/Linux box (except as
> a joke screen saver or as funny wallpaper).
>
> Don.
>  ******************************
>  On Tuesday 01 May 2007 07:29 am, Michael D. Stemle, Jr. wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 May 2007 05:50:09 Don Hensley wrote:
> > Actually there are many conditions that will require a full reboot of any
> > GNU/Linux computer.
> >
> > Most changes (especially those that go well) do not require reboots, this
> > much is true.
> >
> > Where the legendary reliability of GNU/Linux comes into play is in the fact
> > that they can have astounding up time, unlike most Windows systems.
> >
> > But anyone with any real hands on experience with operating systems will
> > tell you that troubles can and do occur. And if it's bad enough it will
> > require a reboot - no matter what the operating system is.
> >
> > But it will happen much, much, much, less often with GNU/Linux.
> >
> > Don.
> >  *****************************
> >  On Tuesday 01 May 2007 03:17 am, Sunnz wrote:
> > Of course, you don't really need to reboot just because you changed
> > "something". Unless it is the kernel.
>
> The only time I ever reboot my wife's machine is when I upgrade to a new
> version of Kubuntu or we go out of town and I think I can save some dough on
> the power bill.
>
> --
> GNU/Linux is the future.
> Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=4458
> Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html


From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 12:35:39 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 00:35:39 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu?
In-Reply-To: <620272.48739.qm@web35803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <620272.48739.qm@web35803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49501.203.120.68.75.1178037339.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> John Sullivan wrote:
>> So while people "on the ground" might help other people switch away from
>> Vista
>> by installing a variety of distributions, let's keep the official
>> message of
>> the campaign clear by only recommending the fully free ones like
>> gNewSense.
>
> I find the question whether binary drivers are okay or not extremely
> difficult to answer. When I switched to GNU/Linux a few years ago, I
> didn't think about it twice when I installed the nVidia driver, Flash,
> RealPlayer, VMWare with Windows on it, ... It just helped me make the
> switch, and I didn't know any better.
>
> A few years and what must have been hundreds of Stallman essays later, I'm
> using only free software, and I try to advocate it in this way.
>
> Still, I don't feel bad about recommending Ubuntu to new GNU/Linux users.
> The thing is, they wouldn't switch if, say, they can't use the Internet
> anymore because their wi-fi device isn't supported. Once I have a chance
> to tell them about the issue, they'll even know why they should buy a
> different wi-fi device next time. But in the meantime, none of us would
> tell these people, "Bad luck. No GNU for you, you loooser!"
>
> So, in my opinion, it's not evil to recommend Ubuntu. Ubuntu isn't evil.
> Users who can't (yet) do without  proprietary software aren't evil.
>
>
> But exactly *because* this question has no easy answer (except the
> dogmatic ones), and there are so many gray areas, promoting only free
> distributions isn't only the *right* thing to do, it's also the *easiest*
> way to go. Otherwise, we'd find it extremely difficult to settle on a
> common definition of what is and is not acceptable.
>
> Anyway, I don't consider it a particularly strong message to say, "Don't
> use proprietary Vista. Use GNU/Linux, we have proprietary drivers too."
>
> Kind Regards,
> M.F.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

A 2 step switch can be useful.

Proprietary -> Open Source -> Free Software

One way is to concentrate free software promotion on the Open Source
community, while letting that community do the job of making proprietary
user switch to them first.

BadVista campaign seems to be trying to offer a direct switch (Proprietary
-> Free Software), or if its too hard for people, at least help the first
switch (Proprietary -> Open Source).

We just have to remember, our root, the ultimate goal is free software.

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From foetsch at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 12:43:40 2007
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_F=F6tsch?=)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
Message-ID: <110587.62511.qm@web35810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Chris Fernandez wrote:
>All the wiki is under the GFDL
> http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html


BTW, shouldn't it say sth. like "with no cover texts and no invariant sections" somewhere on the wiki?

Kind Regards,
M.F.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From foetsch at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 12:54:05 2007
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_F=F6tsch?=)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu?
Message-ID: <195282.46061.qm@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Lam YongXian wrote:
>One way is to concentrate free software promotion on the Open Source
> community, while letting that community do the job of making proprietary
> user switch to them first.

It seems they do: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu

I haven't read up on their plans concerning free software-supported hardware, but all in all it sounds like a good thing. (More users for us to educate about free software values. :-)

Kind Regards,
M.F.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From open07 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 20:56:00 2007
From: open07 at gmail.com (Koh Choon Lin)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 00:56:00 +0000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the
	technical	experience.
In-Reply-To: <110587.62511.qm@web35810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <110587.62511.qm@web35810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1178067360.17954.7.camel@localhost>

> Chris Fernandez wrote:
> >All the wiki is under the GFDL
> > http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html
> 
> 
> BTW, shouldn't it say sth. like "with no cover texts and no invariant sections" somewhere on the wiki?

I got the same worry. Either this or we can set up dual licensing once
we or some developers have the need?


Regards
Koh Choon Lin
Singapore GNU Group
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From foetsch at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 13:06:37 2007
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_F=F6tsch?=)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Switching to GNU/Linux FAQ
Message-ID: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I started the FAQ that we talked about: http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Switching_to_GNU/Linux_FAQ

My plan is to add more questions about actually making the switch: What is a dual-boot setup? Can I run GNU/Linux in a virtual machine? What's the Word equivalent? What's the Outlook equivalent? Can I hook up GNU/Linux to a Windows home network? Etc. etc.

All comments and edits are welcome, of course.

Kind Regards,
M.F.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com  Tue May  1 13:51:36 2007
From: indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com (Jacob Maynard)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate]  Help "Hotline"
Message-ID: <42157.138.162.128.55.1178041896.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>

I just had a great idea. Of course, it's going to take a lot of other
people to say it's great to make it great. But if we were to set up a
chat-room and TeamSpeak server, we could use it as the GNU/Linux
"Hotline." If even a couple of people monitored it at a time, we could
assist people in real-time get their GNU/Linux systems fixed or setup. I
have a slow connection because my ISP sucks, but I have a TeamSpeak server
setup. I'd be willing to donate some bandwidth and time. Unless FSF would
be willing to setup a TeamSpeak server for that purpose.

Jacob



From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 14:31:34 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 02:31:34 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu? Well OT.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010848k16e8db7tebf92277c05f758e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a22c6d110704300849n1d6a0d1s6ea275d190707a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<43610.203.120.68.71.1178033119.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
	<b35fa3120705010848k16e8db7tebf92277c05f758e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46219.203.120.68.73.1178044294.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> 2007/5/2, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com>:
>>The former one
>> will give us more people, but whats the use when they dun understand the
>> ultimate ideal of free software? It would just make us another group of
>> jealous people on Microsoft(R) success.
>>
>
> However, if the motive for people to leave M$ is DRM, then we have won
> half of the battle.
>
> I have been reading all this posts, but I think it is going to be very
> ineffective if we are to hard-sell free and only free software. There
> are two things people are fighting for at the moment, DRM and closed
> software, they are 2 different things, and I think it is better to
> focus on DRM at the moment, everyone hates DRM when they finds out
> about it, but the same people may not hate closed software... we must
> first enlighten people about DRM, then promote free software as a
> secondary area.
>
>>
>> ---
>> Lam YongXian
>> Adolflam.com
>>
>> FSF member #5279
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

Yes, I am not ruling out the step by step strategy in doing this. We just
have to be careful not to lose our goal of free software (look at OSI).
And while in the process of doing so, not to mislead people on the goal.

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From sunnzy at gmail.com  Tue May  1 14:33:58 2007
From: sunnzy at gmail.com (Sunnz)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 04:33:58 +1000
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Switching to GNU/Linux FAQ
In-Reply-To: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>

Added links to User Help Users on point 4, Where do I start.

Ideally there should be a page explaining what LUG is and link to a
list of LUG around the world.

2007/5/2, Michael F?tsch <foetsch at yahoo.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> I started the FAQ that we talked about: http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Switching_to_GNU/Linux_FAQ
>
> My plan is to add more questions about actually making the switch: What is a dual-boot setup? Can I run GNU/Linux in a virtual machine? What's the Word equivalent? What's the Outlook equivalent? Can I hook up GNU/Linux to a Windows home network? Etc. etc.
>
> All comments and edits are welcome, of course.
>
> Kind Regards,
> M.F.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

From rek2 at binaryfreedom.info  Tue May  1 15:08:18 2007
From: rek2 at binaryfreedom.info (rek2GNU/Linux)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:08:18 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Switching to GNU/Linux FAQ [OT]
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46379022.3030100@binaryfreedom.info>


Hmmm wait this is delicate and off topic since John already mention we 
are going to keep this  OT as not and option, and this is not personal 
against whoever wrote this email is just a fact with BinaryFreedom, I 
don't agree with posting LUG's on BinaryFreedom this will go against
everything else the site says,  I will only admit GLUGS, or the lug can 
finally join the
cause and change their name so they don't mislead the public any more.
again don't take this personal or as an attack understand that 
BinaryFreedom stands for Freedom and ideals, (FreeSoftware) we are not 
willing to add open source advocate groups to our site, nothing wrong 
with them but we just don't think the same way and I don't want to 
mislead our visitors.

Cheers.

Chris Fernandez
BinaryFreedom founder
gNewSense developer.

>   



From rek2 at binaryfreedom.info  Tue May  1 15:27:12 2007
From: rek2 at binaryfreedom.info (rek2GNU/Linux)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:27:12 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Switching to GNU/Linux FAQ
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46379490.90406@binaryfreedom.info>

Actually I notes there has been already a link on the wiki to LUGs,
please substitute with  the list on the GNU site to GLUGS, and 
FreeSoftware groups,
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-user-groups.html
also if is corporate help link to services:
http://www.fsf.org/resources/service
http://www.gnu.org/links/


Thanks.


Sunnz wrote:
> Added links to User Help Users on point 4, Where do I start.
>
> Ideally there should be a page explaining what LUG is and link to a
> list of LUG around the world.
>
> 2007/5/2, Michael F?tsch <foetsch at yahoo.com>:
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I started the FAQ that we talked about: http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Switching_to_GNU/Linux_FAQ
>>
>> My plan is to add more questions about actually making the switch: What is a dual-boot setup? Can I run GNU/Linux in a virtual machine? What's the Word equivalent? What's the Outlook equivalent? Can I hook up GNU/Linux to a Windows home network? Etc. etc.
>>
>> All comments and edits are welcome, of course.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> M.F.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>>     
>
>
>   



From rek2 at binaryfreedom.info  Tue May  1 15:31:57 2007
From: rek2 at binaryfreedom.info (rek2GNU/Linux)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:31:57 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Switching to GNU/Linux FAQ [OT]
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <336635.39524.qm@web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b35fa3120705011133h45b5eefel35f809a7944d03e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463795AD.10407@binaryfreedom.info>


Hmmm wait this is delicate and off topic since John already mention we
are going to keep this  OT as not and option, and this is not personal
against whoever wrote this email is just a fact with BinaryFreedom, I
don't agree with posting LUG's on BinaryFreedom this will go against
everything else the site says,  I will only admit GLUGS, or the lug can
finally join the
cause and change their name so they don't mislead the public any more.
again don't take this personal or as an attack understand that
BinaryFreedom stands for Freedom and ideals, (FreeSoftware) we are not
willing to add open source advocate groups to our site, nothing wrong
with them but we just don't think the same way and I don't want to
mislead our visitors.

Cheers.

Chris Fernandez
BinaryFreedom founder
gNewSense developer.

>   




From manchicken at members.fsf.org  Tue May  1 16:30:00 2007
From: manchicken at members.fsf.org (Michael D. Stemle, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:30:00 -0500
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Ubuntu? Well OT.
In-Reply-To: <46219.203.120.68.73.1178044294.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <a22c6d110704300849n1d6a0d1s6ea275d190707a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120705010848k16e8db7tebf92277c05f758e@mail.gmail.com>
	<46219.203.120.68.73.1178044294.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <200705011530.00348.manchicken@members.fsf.org>

On Tuesday 01 May 2007 13:31:34 Lam YongXian wrote:
> > 2007/5/2, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com>:
> >>The former one
> >> will give us more people, but whats the use when they dun understand the
> >> ultimate ideal of free software? It would just make us another group of
> >> jealous people on Microsoft(R) success.
> >
> > However, if the motive for people to leave M$ is DRM, then we have won
> > half of the battle.
> >
> > I have been reading all this posts, but I think it is going to be very
> > ineffective if we are to hard-sell free and only free software. There
> > are two things people are fighting for at the moment, DRM and closed
> > software, they are 2 different things, and I think it is better to
> > focus on DRM at the moment, everyone hates DRM when they finds out
> > about it, but the same people may not hate closed software... we must
> > first enlighten people about DRM, then promote free software as a
> > secondary area.
> >
> >> ---
> >> Lam YongXian
> >> Adolflam.com
> >>
> >> FSF member #5279
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Advocate mailing list
> >> Advocate at badvista.org
> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >
> > --
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocate mailing list
> > Advocate at badvista.org
> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
> Yes, I am not ruling out the step by step strategy in doing this. We just
> have to be careful not to lose our goal of free software (look at OSI).
> And while in the process of doing so, not to mislead people on the goal.
>
> ---
> Lam YongXian
> Adolflam.com
>
> FSF member #5279
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate

Freedom--and COMPLETE freedom at that--has been and still is the goal.  It's 
just taking time.  When GNU was first around, there was no way to run a free 
software operating system.  Now there is.  Ubuntu isn't the completely free 
solution that we want, but it is one that will help better the position of 
free software.  Let's keep calling it GNU/Linux, and let's keep pushing for 
freedom.  We'll use gNewSense, and we'll promote gNewSense (let's all make 
sure we're seeding it via torrents), and we should also rejoice that even 
though other folks aren't completely free due to poor licensing practices of 
hardware and software vendors, that they are magnitudes more free than they 
were.

I also think that the increased adoption of Ubuntu will encourage 
manufacturers to release specs and software companies to free formats (how 
cool would it be if Flash was made a free format?).

Yeah, we have those who like to stand on soap boxes and proclaim their moral 
superiority, and they may be right that they are more free... but if we keep 
increasing awareness and increasing freedom, and keep reminding people to 
value their freedom, we'll get where we're going.

-- 
~ Michael D. Stemle, Jr. <><
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer
The number of the beast - vi vi vi


From 2600denver at gmail.com  Tue May  1 16:38:31 2007
From: 2600denver at gmail.com (Ringo Kamens)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:38:31 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help Spread the word
In-Reply-To: <57525.203.120.68.66.1178025172.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <d920a27f0704300825j1e76cbacy646d6186a1b717bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120704300829l39511e5elf9da74deb1834559@mail.gmail.com>
	<57525.203.120.68.66.1178025172.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <3922422b0705011338y6075d442l89dd53dd16c2b27@mail.gmail.com>

Emails to where?
Comrade Ringo Kamens

On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh, didn't notice there was such graphics that I could use, thanks,
> > this would be great!
> >
> > Now, has anyone seen the Warner Wake up call post on that site?
> >
> > http://www.defectivebydesign.org/actions/warner_music_wake_up_call
> >
> > I think Warener is very sturnborn and indeed needs a wake up call...
> > unfortunately I am not in the US, but those in the US should help out
> > if you can.
> >
> > 2007/5/1, Yasith Lahiru Vidanaarachchi <yasith.vidanaarachchi at gmail.com>:
> >> Add a defective by design button to your blog, website etc. and spread
> >> the
> >> word that DRM is bad, you can get buttons and banners from
> >>
> >> http://defectivebydesign.org/promo/button
> >>
> >> I've already added a banner and a button to my blog at
> >> www.tuxv.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> --
> >> \ \ / /__ _  __ (_) | |_ |  |_
> >> .\ V// _` |(_-<  |  ||  _| |  '  \
> >>   |_| \__,_|/__/ |_| \__||_||_|
> >>   http://tuxv.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> Don't send me word attachments.
> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Advocate mailing list
> >> Advocate at badvista.org
> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocate mailing list
> > Advocate at badvista.org
> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >
>
> We can send emails. Anyone has the contact details?
>
> Lam YongXian
> Adolf AT www.adolflam.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


From 2600denver at gmail.com  Tue May  1 16:55:29 2007
From: 2600denver at gmail.com (Ringo Kamens)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:55:29 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <1178067360.17954.7.camel@localhost>
References: <110587.62511.qm@web35810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1178067360.17954.7.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3922422b0705011355u2fdca93bica476eaca26ff2b3@mail.gmail.com>

If you are in a LUG or on a mailing list for a LUG, please spread the
word about this page.
Comrade Ringo Kamens

On 5/1/07, Koh Choon Lin <open07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Chris Fernandez wrote:
> > >All the wiki is under the GFDL
> > > http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html
> >
> >
> > BTW, shouldn't it say sth. like "with no cover texts and no invariant sections" somewhere on the wiki?
>
> I got the same worry. Either this or we can set up dual licensing once
> we or some developers have the need?
>
>
> Regards
> Koh Choon Lin
> Singapore GNU Group
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>
>
>


From johns at fsf.org  Tue May  1 18:42:58 2007
From: johns at fsf.org (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:42:58 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] An ad campaign idea
In-Reply-To: <34368.203.120.68.72.1178001271.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
	(Lam YongXian's message of "Tue, 1 May 2007 14:34:31 +0800 (SGT)")
References: <b35fa3120704281028s40171f17k10fab44b09f0cd1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1301.192.168.1.1.1177793906.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
	<34368.203.120.68.72.1178001271.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
Message-ID: <87zm4ow4gd.fsf@spider.localnet>

"Lam YongXian" <news at adolflam.com> writes:

>> I suggest that we keep Mac out of it. Our focus is against Vista. I know
>> that the FSF stands behind GNU/Linux, but our aim is against Vista,
>> specifically. Even Mac would be better than Vista. Is that agreeable?
>>
>> Jacob
>
>
> You mean this campaign is created just to attack Windows Vista thats all?
>

It's one facet of a wider campaign to promote free software (the FSF). Just
like we have separate campaigns for individual free software issues, like Free
BIOS for example, we have this separate campaign to target Microsoft Vista. Of
course if anyone asks we always say that almost all of our objections to Vista
apply to other proprietary software too.

-- 
John Sullivan
Campaigns Manager            | Phone: (617)542-5942 x23 | http://badvista.org
51 Franklin Street, 5th Fl.  | Fax:   (617)542-2652	| http://www.gnu.org
Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA    | GPG:   AE8600B6          | http://www.fsf.org

"Microsoft put all those functionality-crippling features into Vista because it
wants to own the entertainment industry. This isn't how Microsoft spins it, of
course. It maintains that it has no choice...It's all complete nonsense."
    --Bruce Schneier, "DRM in Windows Vista"


From johns at fsf.org  Tue May  1 18:46:09 2007
From: johns at fsf.org (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 18:46:09 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help those who don't have the technical
	experience.
In-Reply-To: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
	(Sunnz's message of "Tue, 1 May 2007 22:02:19 +1000")
References: <b35fa3120705010502p2ab7f7a6u56ae9a1ec95f1f70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tzuww4b2.fsf@spider.localnet>

Sunnz <sunnzy at gmail.com> writes:

> Just started a "User help users" page on binary freedom:
> http://wiki.binaryfreedom.info/index.php/Users_Help_Users
>

Keep in mind that we also have the Service Directory at
http://www.fsf.org/resources/service. Seems similar.

-- 
John Sullivan
Campaigns Manager            | Phone: (617)542-5942 x23 | http://badvista.org
51 Franklin Street, 5th Fl.  | Fax:   (617)542-2652	| http://www.gnu.org
Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA    | GPG:   AE8600B6          | http://www.fsf.org

"Microsoft put all those functionality-crippling features into Vista because it
wants to own the entertainment industry. This isn't how Microsoft spins it, of
course. It maintains that it has no choice...It's all complete nonsense."
    --Bruce Schneier, "DRM in Windows Vista"


From 2600denver at gmail.com  Tue May  1 18:50:51 2007
From: 2600denver at gmail.com (Ringo Kamens)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:50:51 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help "Hotline"
In-Reply-To: <42157.138.162.128.55.1178041896.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
References: <42157.138.162.128.55.1178041896.squirrel@maynard.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <3922422b0705011550q6a1d1f6fx6d5fb6a18a67d2b5@mail.gmail.com>

It's a great idea. I don't have a fast enough connection for it but I
would love to see it happen.
Comrade Ringo Kamens

On 5/1/07, Jacob Maynard <indymaynard at maynard.homelinux.com> wrote:
> I just had a great idea. Of course, it's going to take a lot of other
> people to say it's great to make it great. But if we were to set up a
> chat-room and TeamSpeak server, we could use it as the GNU/Linux
> "Hotline." If even a couple of people monitored it at a time, we could
> assist people in real-time get their GNU/Linux systems fixed or setup. I
> have a slow connection because my ISP sucks, but I have a TeamSpeak server
> setup. I'd be willing to donate some bandwidth and time. Unless FSF would
> be willing to setup a TeamSpeak server for that purpose.
>
> Jacob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


From 2600denver at gmail.com  Tue May  1 19:41:07 2007
From: 2600denver at gmail.com (Ringo Kamens)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:41:07 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Rek2's Post on LUGs and GNULUGs
Message-ID: <3922422b0705011641w37af1011lf732aa1bf520c17e@mail.gmail.com>

I wanted to state my opinion on this issue. I recognize rek2's
authority to make this decision and will therefore not oppose it but
if the Binary Freedom community opposes it then a consensus vote will
be made and the order overturned. My personal opinion, not the one of
BinaryFreedom, is that any change that puts us in a freer position is
good. I think that it's better for people to switch to non-free
systems like Ubuntu and install proprietary drivers (like I am forced
to do) than continue to use Vista because gnewsense doesn't work.
While they are still sacrificing freedoms, they are regaining their
self-determination which they did not have with Microsoft. We, as free
software activists, regardless of our personal beliefs on whether
systems like Ubuntu are truly free, should fearless promote such
systems. I even would rather see somebody switch to Mac instead of
stay with Windows because even then they are regaining
self-determination. The danger with this is that as we switch people
to not truly free operating systems like Ubuntu, they will gain power.
Power corrupts. They are a corporation, and as a corporation have one
responsibility: to demonstrate growth to their stockholders. They will
no longer care about ethics or freedom and this isn't an attack on
Ubuntu, it's developers, or the community but on the corporation. RMS
didn't get where he is by compromising, but I believe that in some
cases we must slowly gain our ground. One such organization that comes
to mind is the IWW who in their constitution say they can't sacrifice
their rights at all however there is an important distinction to make.
We are not giving up our rights, but we are slowly retaking them. By
switching somebody to Ubuntu we are regaining _some_ of our rights and
as a result, I consider it not only better but to not be in
contradictions with the aim of the FSF, Binary Freedom, and Rek2. I
believe that all of these organizations are truly working towards the
common good however sometimes we get sidetracked and I wanted to
present this alternative way of viewing things if they had not been
heard before. As of such, I will continue to present things like
Ubuntu to people as options on this mailing list however I will not do
so under the flag of Binary Freedom as long as Rek2's ruling stands.
Respectfully Submitted,
Comrade Ringo Kamens


From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 19:51:36 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:51:36 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help Spread the word
In-Reply-To: <3922422b0705011338y6075d442l89dd53dd16c2b27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d920a27f0704300825j1e76cbacy646d6186a1b717bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120704300829l39511e5elf9da74deb1834559@mail.gmail.com>
	<57525.203.120.68.66.1178025172.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
	<3922422b0705011338y6075d442l89dd53dd16c2b27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35886.192.169.41.44.1178063496.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> Emails to where?
> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>
> On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh, didn't notice there was such graphics that I could use, thanks,
>> > this would be great!
>> >
>> > Now, has anyone seen the Warner Wake up call post on that site?
>> >
>> > http://www.defectivebydesign.org/actions/warner_music_wake_up_call
>> >
>> > I think Warener is very sturnborn and indeed needs a wake up call...
>> > unfortunately I am not in the US, but those in the US should help out
>> > if you can.
>> >
>> > 2007/5/1, Yasith Lahiru Vidanaarachchi
>> <yasith.vidanaarachchi at gmail.com>:
>> >> Add a defective by design button to your blog, website etc. and
>> spread
>> >> the
>> >> word that DRM is bad, you can get buttons and banners from
>> >>
>> >> http://defectivebydesign.org/promo/button
>> >>
>> >> I've already added a banner and a button to my blog at
>> >> www.tuxv.blogspot.com
>> >>
>> >> cheers
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> \ \ / /__ _  __ (_) | |_ |  |_
>> >> .\ V// _` |(_-<  |  ||  _| |  '  \
>> >>   |_| \__,_|/__/ |_| \__||_||_|
>> >>   http://tuxv.blogspot.com
>> >>
>> >> Don't send me word attachments.
>> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Advocate mailing list
>> >> Advocate at badvista.org
>> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Advocate mailing list
>> > Advocate at badvista.org
>> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >
>>
>> We can send emails. Anyone has the contact details?
>>
>> Lam YongXian
>> Adolf AT www.adolflam.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advocate mailing list
>> Advocate at badvista.org
>> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

To Warner?

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From 2600denver at gmail.com  Tue May  1 19:53:12 2007
From: 2600denver at gmail.com (Ringo Kamens)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 19:53:12 -0400
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help Spread the word
In-Reply-To: <35886.192.169.41.44.1178063496.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
References: <d920a27f0704300825j1e76cbacy646d6186a1b717bf@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <3922422b0705011653g1b9f6148je4fa86a4548dd1c@mail.gmail.com>

Please make phone calls. They are much more effective and don't take
any longer. Info at defectivebydesign.org
Comrade Ringo Kamens

On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
>
> > Emails to where?
> > Comrade Ringo Kamens
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Oh, didn't notice there was such graphics that I could use, thanks,
> >> > this would be great!
> >> >
> >> > Now, has anyone seen the Warner Wake up call post on that site?
> >> >
> >> > http://www.defectivebydesign.org/actions/warner_music_wake_up_call
> >> >
> >> > I think Warener is very sturnborn and indeed needs a wake up call...
> >> > unfortunately I am not in the US, but those in the US should help out
> >> > if you can.
> >> >
> >> > 2007/5/1, Yasith Lahiru Vidanaarachchi
> >> <yasith.vidanaarachchi at gmail.com>:
> >> >> Add a defective by design button to your blog, website etc. and
> >> spread
> >> >> the
> >> >> word that DRM is bad, you can get buttons and banners from
> >> >>
> >> >> http://defectivebydesign.org/promo/button
> >> >>
> >> >> I've already added a banner and a button to my blog at
> >> >> www.tuxv.blogspot.com
> >> >>
> >> >> cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> \ \ / /__ _  __ (_) | |_ |  |_
> >> >> .\ V// _` |(_-<  |  ||  _| |  '  \
> >> >>   |_| \__,_|/__/ |_| \__||_||_|
> >> >>   http://tuxv.blogspot.com
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't send me word attachments.
> >> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Advocate mailing list
> >> >> Advocate at badvista.org
> >> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Advocate mailing list
> >> > Advocate at badvista.org
> >> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >> >
> >>
> >> We can send emails. Anyone has the contact details?
> >>
> >> Lam YongXian
> >> Adolf AT www.adolflam.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Advocate mailing list
> >> Advocate at badvista.org
> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocate mailing list
> > Advocate at badvista.org
> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
> >
>
> To Warner?
>
> ---
> Lam YongXian
> Adolflam.com
>
> FSF member #5279
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>


From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 19:58:19 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:58:19 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Rek2's Post on LUGs and GNULUGs
In-Reply-To: <3922422b0705011641w37af1011lf732aa1bf520c17e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3922422b0705011641w37af1011lf732aa1bf520c17e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45480.203.120.68.69.1178063899.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> I wanted to state my opinion on this issue. I recognize rek2's
> authority to make this decision and will therefore not oppose it but
> if the Binary Freedom community opposes it then a consensus vote will
> be made and the order overturned. My personal opinion, not the one of
> BinaryFreedom, is that any change that puts us in a freer position is
> good. I think that it's better for people to switch to non-free
> systems like Ubuntu and install proprietary drivers (like I am forced
> to do) than continue to use Vista because gnewsense doesn't work.
> While they are still sacrificing freedoms, they are regaining their
> self-determination which they did not have with Microsoft. We, as free
> software activists, regardless of our personal beliefs on whether
> systems like Ubuntu are truly free, should fearless promote such
> systems. I even would rather see somebody switch to Mac instead of
> stay with Windows because even then they are regaining
> self-determination. The danger with this is that as we switch people
> to not truly free operating systems like Ubuntu, they will gain power.
> Power corrupts. They are a corporation, and as a corporation have one
> responsibility: to demonstrate growth to their stockholders. They will
> no longer care about ethics or freedom and this isn't an attack on
> Ubuntu, it's developers, or the community but on the corporation. RMS
> didn't get where he is by compromising, but I believe that in some
> cases we must slowly gain our ground. One such organization that comes
> to mind is the IWW who in their constitution say they can't sacrifice
> their rights at all however there is an important distinction to make.
> We are not giving up our rights, but we are slowly retaking them. By
> switching somebody to Ubuntu we are regaining _some_ of our rights and
> as a result, I consider it not only better but to not be in
> contradictions with the aim of the FSF, Binary Freedom, and Rek2. I
> believe that all of these organizations are truly working towards the
> common good however sometimes we get sidetracked and I wanted to
> present this alternative way of viewing things if they had not been
> heard before. As of such, I will continue to present things like
> Ubuntu to people as options on this mailing list however I will not do
> so under the flag of Binary Freedom as long as Rek2's ruling stands.
> Respectfully Submitted,
> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocate mailing list
> Advocate at badvista.org
> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>

AN ANALOGY:
We just have to make sure people dun enter ubuntu and think that it is
already heaven, but later found that they are just 1 level above hell.
Make sure that they remember to continue climbing up, instead of staying
satisfied at the level-above-hell like what they used to in hell. That is
what happened some of to those at OSI.

Some of us come from there, but we are definately not going stay there
forever. But it is somewhere we have to go through to reach here =)

---
Lam YongXian
Adolflam.com

FSF member #5279




From news at adolflam.com  Tue May  1 19:59:07 2007
From: news at adolflam.com (Lam YongXian)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:59:07 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [BadVista Advocate] Help Spread the word
In-Reply-To: <3922422b0705011653g1b9f6148je4fa86a4548dd1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d920a27f0704300825j1e76cbacy646d6186a1b717bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<b35fa3120704300829l39511e5elf9da74deb1834559@mail.gmail.com>
	<57525.203.120.68.66.1178025172.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
	<3922422b0705011338y6075d442l89dd53dd16c2b27@mail.gmail.com>
	<35886.192.169.41.44.1178063496.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>
	<3922422b0705011653g1b9f6148je4fa86a4548dd1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38327.203.120.68.71.1178063947.squirrel@webmail.adolflam.com>


> Please make phone calls. They are much more effective and don't take
> any longer. Info at defectivebydesign.org
> Comrade Ringo Kamens
>
> On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Emails to where?
>> > Comrade Ringo Kamens
>> >
>> > On 5/1/07, Lam YongXian <news at adolflam.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Oh, didn't notice there was such graphics that I could use, thanks,
>> >> > this would be great!
>> >> >
>> >> > Now, has anyone seen the Warner Wake up call post on that site?
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.defectivebydesign.org/actions/warner_music_wake_up_call
>> >> >
>> >> > I think Warener is very sturnborn and indeed needs a wake up
>> call...
>> >> > unfortunately I am not in the US, but those in the US should help
>> out
>> >> > if you can.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2007/5/1, Yasith Lahiru Vidanaarachchi
>> >> <yasith.vidanaarachchi at gmail.com>:
>> >> >> Add a defective by design button to your blog, website etc. and
>> >> spread
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> word that DRM is bad, you can get buttons and banners from
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://defectivebydesign.org/promo/button
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've already added a banner and a button to my blog at
>> >> >> www.tuxv.blogspot.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> cheers
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> \ \ / /__ _  __ (_) | |_ |  |_
>> >> >> .\ V// _` |(_-<  |  ||  _| |  '  \
>> >> >>   |_| \__,_|/__/ |_| \__||_||_|
>> >> >>   http://tuxv.blogspot.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't send me word attachments.
>> >> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Advocate mailing list
>> >> >> Advocate at badvista.org
>> >> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> >> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Advocate mailing list
>> >> > Advocate at badvista.org
>> >> > http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> We can send emails. Anyone has the contact details?
>> >>
>> >> Lam YongXian
>> >> Adolf AT www.adolflam.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Advocate mailing list
>> >> Advocate at badvista.org
>> >> http://badvista.fsf.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate
>> >>
>> >
>> > __________________________________